Is a V6 better than an I6?

[1MOREMOD]

Maybe he meant a V6 laid flat. 180 degree v6

[cenix]

Originally Posted by TampaF87

Someone mentioned the Flat 6, which is great for chassis balance, and packaging but they still suffer from balance issues like opposed V engines do and they usually have oiling issues because, you know, gravity. This was a big problem on old airplane motors. Porsche has done really well with them, but Subaru is notorious for having ringland issues.

The Subaru piston ringland issues weren't a result of the flat design of the motor or oiling issues. It was more about engine management/detonation and piston design/composition.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by bobert

Nice post - just this one statement that isn't quite accurate - a flat six is actually a lot different than an inline six laid down flat - if an inline six was laid down flat, it'd have all six cylinders pointing/firing in the same direction, rather than three cylinders pointing in one direction and the other three in the opposite direction. It's also much shorter in length, as you pointed out a little later:

I was speaking in terms of primary and secondary harmonics and the cancellation of the rocking couple effect. In that respect, the I6 and F6 are identical as far as internal balance of the rotating parts. I've been driving BMW I6's for 30 years and a Honda F6 for 18 years. I'm quite familiar with both engines. Thanks.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Maybe he meant a V6 laid flat. 180 degree v6

Exactly.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

The first car I ever drove was a '48 Pontiac with a straight 8. I'll bet a few on this forum ever heard of this configuration since straight 8's have not been around since the 1950's. Since I was curious, I Googled it and found out that in the 50's Mercedes put a straight 8 in a formula one car and in the 300SL.

Our family '48 Pontiac was a hell of a car with "3 on the tree" and enough room in the back seat for......whatever. The good old days.

Back in the day my Uncle Bill had a Caddy V16. He said it scared the shit out of him because it was so smooth you drove it way too fast for the brake and tire technology of the day.

[The Choosey begger]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Back in the day my Uncle Bill had a Caddy V16. He said it scared the shit out of him because it was so smooth you drove it way too fast for the brake and tire technology of the day.

All these people who think anything other than inline6 is not smooth, is pretty laughable...

[The Choosey begger]

The inline 6 is just damn too long, it hurts handling. S2000's with their inline 4's destroy E46 M3's.

[bobert]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I was speaking in terms of primary and secondary harmonics and the cancellation of the rocking couple effect. In that respect, the I6 and F6 are identical as far as internal balance of the rotating parts.

Ok - it just threw me off in the original post cz you didn't qualify the statement in question as such. No worries.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I've been driving BMW I6's for 30 years and a Honda F6 for 18 years. I'm quite familiar with both engines. Thanks.

No need to be so sensitive - just wanted to point out that one sentence that jumped out at me in an otherwise fine post. Congrats on your driving history.

[1MOREMOD]

How does that picture fit your statement. It not an s54 or inline 4 from a s2000.

[The Choosey begger]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

How does that picture fit your statement. It not an s54 or inline 4 from a s2000.

How does it fit?

The most successful M car in racing Also came with an line 4. The M division chose an Inline 4 over an inline 6 to improve handling.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by anglo

All these people who think anything other than inline6 is not smooth, is pretty laughable...

Pretty sure the argument is simply I6 vs V6. Arguing that is simple. Of course 90° V8's, 60° V12's and most boxers are also balanced. But V6's aren't. That's all that's being said here.

Doesn't mean a naturally unbalanced engine isn't good. The S65 is tits, just looking for a good car. I currently would love an RS3 hatch with a manual, that I5 is great. And as you stated, plenty of I4's are great motors, they're just not naturally balanced.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by anglo

How does it fit?

The most successful M car in racing Also came with an line 4. The M division chose an Inline 4 over an inline 6 to improve handling.

I'm pretty sure they didnt chose the I4 because of that. You're making that up while you're typing it.

[The Choosey begger]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

I'm pretty sure they didnt chose the I4 because of that. You're making that up while you're typing it.

All your posts sound so angry, you need to get laid.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Back in the day my Uncle Bill had a Caddy V16. He said it scared the shit out of him because it was so smooth you drove it way too fast for the brake and tire technology of the day.

Can't top that!

Anyway, the number of cylinders today mean less than it did in the past. I went from American V-8s to BMW inline 6 (E28) to BMW V-8 (E39) 540s to my 4-banger F30. Used to be that you needed more cylinders to get the job done. Now, the 4 cylinder engines are so powerful and have such low end torque that many people, me included, don't need or want more. My 328 is just as quick and fast as my E39. Less cylinders means less weight over the nose. I don't track so I'm not sure but it seams like less weight in front will help in the handling department. I get wanting more cylinders. I'm just saying that less is not bad either.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by anglo

All your posts sound so angry, you need to get laid.

I'm not angry, you're just making things up as you go, presenting them as facts.
The e30 m3 was developed as a homologation model. That means it has certain specs to follow in order to compete in that class.

BTW the 4 cyl s14 in the e30 sits almost as far foreward as the later i6 in the e36:






Look at its position compared to the strut towers or the wheel wells.
Its all a matter of how you design a chassis.

[The Choosey begger]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

I'm not angry, you're just making things up as you go, presenting them as facts.
The e30 m3 was developed as a homologation model. That means it has certain specs to follow in order to compete in that class.

Well go ahead with your little sideshow it doesn't change the fact that a shorter engine is actually better than an inline 6, it moves the cg back, improves handling.

[The Choosey begger]

The E36 M3 homologation was with an inline 6 engine...

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by anglo

Well go ahead with your little sideshow it doesn't change the fact that a shorter engine is actually better than an inline 6, it moves the cg back, improves handling.

Look at the pics, from a cg standpoint, the (not S50, pretty sure that's a US "S"52) has two plugs ahead of the shock tower, which is better than all four of the S14. Never mind that the rear trailing arms of the E30 are out for blood.

Here's an actual S50b32 just to get things back on track.

[IMG]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/pgJWq1hTvBc/maxresdefault.jpg[/IMG]

[The Choosey begger]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Look at the pics, from a cg standpoint, the (not S50, pretty sure that's a US "S"52) has two plugs ahead of the shock tower, which is better than all four of the S14. Never mind that the rear trailing arms of the E30 are out for blood.

Here's an actual S50b32 just to get things back on track.

[IMG]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/pgJWq1hTvBc/maxresdefault.jpg[/IMG]

A V6 is even shorter than an inline 4.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by anglo

A V6 is even shorter than an inline 4.

But if you're Audi, you'll still hang it over the front bumper. One thing to be a shorter/lighter engine. Another to put it in the right place.

[The Choosey begger]

,

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by anglo

The E36 M3 homologation was with an inline 6 engine...

The e36 m3 was never developed as a homologation model.
By that time only Mercedes, Opel and Alfa homologated to the class 1 dtm.
Max specs for those seasons (1993-1995) were 2,5L 6cyl. The e36m3 has a bigger engine so no go. And in 1996 DTM stopped.

Originally Posted by anglo

Well go ahead with your little sideshow it doesn't change the fact ....

It also doesnt change the fact that you're making stories up in this thread....

But you're completely right, if a designer cannot place an i6 into his design (for instance he doesnt want to offer up the required cabinspace ), a more compact layout can be getter.
Of course you have to come over the fact that the i6 has a better balance, is easier on flow and thermal management (it has a distinct cold and hot side) etc etc. compared to a V6 setup
So all people with an engineering background will answer the question with the same as what was already given in the first reply of this topic: "it depends".
Its mostly the people that dont have an engineering background that luster for an answer that is conclusive in ALL situations, as that would make it easy to understand. Alas it is not that easy.