e36bmer's... e70bmer - X5M

[e36bmer]

Originally Posted by boneca

^ that's pretty cool, I'm planning to do dyno on my as well!
unless I'm reading the chart wrong I was expecting to see higher numbers with Velos!

I was a little disappointed, but went back to look at the Dyno Velos advertises w/ their tune. It isn't far off. I'd have more torque if it weren't pulling timing around 2.5-4k rpm. And down about 20hp, who knows... maybe just 97k miles?

[boneca]

how many pulls? 3?

[e36bmer]

Originally Posted by boneca

how many pulls? 3?

Yessir. Just for the record, I had quotes from $95-150 for 3 pulls. The place I went to was $125, the others weren't available on short notice.

[boneca]

Originally Posted by e36bmer

Yessir. Just for the record, I had quotes from $95-150 for 3 pulls. The place I went to was $125, the others weren't available on short notice.

right on the money, I got same quote from my local place!

[m5james]

80hp and 102tq gains, am I reading that right? If so, that sounds pretty much the average for most tuners. What did they charge and what are they advertising?

[JoeyBimX5din]

467 hp 445lbs tq stock
486 hp 546 lbs tq tuned.

19hp and 101 lbs tq. Torque gain looks good, and your hp gain was all the way through the curve starting at a low 2000 rpm, but there still may be something a miss. I do know some cars or trucks are to smart for dyno time, and will sometimes have issues putting power down because they are on the dyno, but in real world application, they feel great. 97k is not a lot of miles for a motor, not really anymore.

[vioilio]

Originally Posted by e36bmer

I picked up some generic ones off ebay. The title was "GT25/GT28/GT35 SM/MEDIUM TURBO TURBOCHARGER STEEL MESH HEAT SHIELD WRAP BLANKET" I thought I'd use them both, but ended up cutting one up a little to more lay on top of the turbos and wrap around slightly. This kept the shield away from the wastegates and should help keep the heat from getting into the engine bay. I had thought I would take temperature samples before and after, but I'm lazy and never did. However, with the downpipes de-catted, I can now lay my hand on the engine cover, it was wayyyy too hot before.

So ebay item number: 400388799602 is the one we should get? Do we buy 1 or 2 ?

[e36bmer]

Originally Posted by vioilio

So ebay item number: 400388799602 is the one we should get? Do we buy 1 or 2 ?

I had ordered 2, but no way they would both fit in there for me. So, I cut a couple slits in the sides of the wrap and basically laid one on top and wrapped around both turbine housings with the same wrap. Then, I was able to fit the stock heat shield on top of that. So, you should really only need one. Probably the only time we're lucky these turbos are so small.

[e36bmer]

Originally Posted by JoeyBimX5din

467 hp 445lbs tq stock
486 hp 546 lbs tq tuned.

19hp and 101 lbs tq. Torque gain looks good, and your hp gain was all the way through the curve starting at a low 2000 rpm, but there still may be something a miss. I do know some cars or trucks are to smart for dyno time, and will sometimes have issues putting power down because they are on the dyno, but in real world application, they feel great. 97k is not a lot of miles for a motor, not really anymore.

Yeah, I actually changed out my plugs today for NGK 95770 (1 step colder) and it seems to be slightly more powerful. I'd say that for sure it is pulling a little better up top. Oh well, I guess that dyno session was mostly a bust. I went ahead and ordered a JB4 so I can do some data-logging.

I also checked some codes today and did have some transmission related code.

VGSG wheel Notlaufregelung activated. No DXC desired torque setting

Code: 0055C3

[m5james]

You'll likely wanna go two steps and gapped to around .20 - .22 after you go JB4. I was running stock plugs when I started pushing higher boost and was getting misfires before I finally switched. NGK says one step colder for every 100hp.

[e36bmer]

Originally Posted by m5james

You'll likely wanna go two steps and gapped to around .20 - .22 after you go JB4. I was running stock plugs when I started pushing higher boost and was getting misfires before I finally switched. NGK says one step colder for every 100hp.

Thanks for the heads up, I'll keep that in mind. I already had 6 these, gapped to .022 as they are what I use in my wife's N55. So I ordered a couple more and put them in to see if it would make much of a difference. I think it was positive. I mean, on the dyno I didn't really make any more HP than stock, just a lot more torque.

[e36bmer]

I picked up the Kinguawa compressor wheels a while back:
http://www.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1227192

I finally got around to pulling my turbos out and replacing the wheels. I figured that I'd install the JB4 and meth setup at the same time, mostly for logging with the JB4 and then a little meth never hurt anyone.

Here's what I did.

1. Replace plugs with 2-step cooler NGK 97506, gapped to 0.020"
2. Pull out the turbos
3. I tried getting the compressor wheels off, but there was a very thin 4-sided spot to hold the turbine wheel in place and I couldn't get any grip on it. I also tried to use my impact gun to quickly spin off the compressor wheel nut. I was to the point where I thought I might break something and called a few local turbo rebuilders. 3rd Coast Turbo rebuilt them for $375/ea, so I figured I might as well have them rebuilt and swap the wheels while they were at it. My old turbos seemed to be in good shape, just a bit dirty from where the CCV oil vapor was likely dripping out of the bottom of the turbo inlet. Also a little bit of dirt and grime from the leaking coolant feed lines that have already been fixed.

4. I have pictures of the install and removal would be reverse.


I started off with these fresh turbos. Looks cool!


I had taken a few pictures of the oil and coolant lines to the turbo so I knew how to put them back correctly.



I had cross-threaded the pass side O2 bung the last time, so I tore up the O2 sensor getting it out, had to re-tap that side and get a new O2. I was glad to know that at least it shouldn't be leaking now.

This is what you're staring at before putting the turbos in.



With the turbo lines on correctly, the driver side turbo should go in first and really slips right in there, tighten down the oil drain and the v-band to the manifold. Then, go to the pass side. It helps to situate the v-band where a deep socket, 3/8" ratchet fits right between the two turbos and downpipes. Just enough room to work without being too cramped. It's also a good time to make sure to put on the turbo oil feed lines. I put a bit of oil in the turbos here as well, to make sure they would be lubed up.




Since I've had several comments about the turbo blanket, I thought I'd show it here. It is just laid on top of the turbo turbine section and fits snugly between that and the OEM heat shield.



You may note that I already put the O2 sensors in there. Since the little cups that help hold in the OEM heat shield seemed to make me cross-thread my O2 sensor last time, I decided to omit those. Between the extra heat shielding and absence of kitties, I figure not too much heat will get out of there.




So, this is probably tip #1. I found it much easier to put on the turbo inlets with the charge pipes off. Really, once you've taken the charge pipes off and replaced the clamps with worm clamps, I think it is much easier. You can make sure to get the screw straight and tight.



Next tip, which is pretty much the same piece, is to tighten down the valve cover vent before putting all the shielding on. I noticed that it is very hard to reach these screws once your shielding is on. Heck, that back screw wasn't even on there the last time I got my car back from the dealership and it created a bit of a mess.




Next, once you have both turbo inlets in and vent hoses screwed into the valve covers, you can install all of those little heat shields. There isn't anything tricky to them, just put them back how you got them.




Finally, you can pop on the charge pipe, followed by the turbo coolant lines. For future reference, you can get the charge pipe out of there without taking off the coolant lines. But, since they are already off, it's easier this route.




From here, you're home-free. Slap on some covers and the intake and you're good to go. For the intake, another tip that took me some time to realize. Just grap a 1/4" hex driver and take off the two worm clamps and the whole intake piece will come out. There is not need to break down the intake box where the filters are. I was removing those 4 torx screws before taking off the intake for some reason, even though that's not necessary at all.

[e36bmer]

Now to the Trunk mounted methanol setup. I got the new 2gal Burger methanol tank with dual CM10 nozzles. It measured out like it would fit in the trunk where I wanted. Just needed to run the hose from the trunk to under the hood.

So, I started in the trunk, the drivers side felt like there was some space to slip through. I ran a fishing wire from the driver bottom corner of the rear seat and it popped up in this open panel. Then, taped on the meth line and power wire and drug it through. Easy enough.




Here is where it'll come out. I don't think the rear seat even needed to come up. When I put it back in place I realized that it would probably have come out in the same spot with leaving the seats in place.
You'll need to pull up the foot trim on the driver side. Which requires removing the B-pillar vent and mid-trim and then the bottom trim pulls off from the front, b-pillar and rear all in one piece.




As you can see, there is some room to run it up front to the driver foot well. I tucked it just under the carpet right there.




How to get it under the hood? Look here, above the dead pedal.




You'll see a rubber seal and I used an extended drill bit to make a hole on the lower, empty indentation. I stuck my fish through from under the brake booster, taped on my lines and pulled through.




Out it comes, just below the brake booster. That then led to another rubber stopper that easily leads right to your engine. Super easy.



Finally, I cut out the bottom of this pocket in the trunk and the top left corner there. The sides slid right over the tank that I had bolted and bungee-corded down. It looks pretty good while in there. I think i'll need to get that strut to hold this up for fill-ups.

[m5james]

Seems like there should be a part two of this post :-)

[e36bmer]

Originally Posted by m5james

Seems like there should be a part two of this post :-)

Wait, so you want to know how it performs or something?

I'll get to that soon. I've been a bit busy with work and wanted to be sure to log several runs on the tune before turning up the boost and meth. For now, it seems to perform about the same. Yesterday I thought it felt faster than ever before and today it felt the same as with the original turbos. I'll update when I get to logging with meth.

[m5james]

Well, umm...YEAH :-)

I understand, I was looking for more of a before and after with both turbos only and then again with meth. I don't know if it's because we're running a flash with JB4 (stacked) or because we beed a true BEF only to let the JB4 control everything, but I've found that even switching back and forth once a week between map 1 and map 6 seems to bring the power back. I understand what you mean about some days feel faster than others, but I'm also relating it to outside temps...warm day into work is OK, cold nights on my way home and it's a monster. Winter...ugg, if I could only get 30* temps outside and still have it be sunny, it'd be awesome!! Some days I feel like a 1320 Supra launching video, other days I feel like I'm towing a trailer. I think meth is going to be needed to do so as these things seem really sensitive to outside temps.

[RichardH]

Wow great thread, how's the compressor wheels working?

[e36bmer]

Originally Posted by RichardH

Wow great thread, how's the compressor wheels working?

They are working well, though at this point I couldn't say it's worth the trouble. I can now say that I probably get 20-30hp more up top and it keeps pulling to redline better. It also spools 500-800rpm later as well. I'm really trying to turn up the boost further with meth, but I'm currently having issues with my meth and JB4 setup and not really getting any assistance.

[RichardH]

What's your boost at?

[e36bmer]

Originally Posted by RichardH

What's your boost at?

Well, it is interesting. When I dyno'd, with the Velos Tune and stock turbos, I was getting around 18-20psi. You can find the dyno sheet earlier in this thread. Now that I swapped the compressor wheels and added the JB4, I am only reading boost through the JB4 and it doesn't fully follow what I would expect. On Map4, which the JB4 doesn't do anything but log, I get around 15psi and it feels pretty much as fast as it was on stock turbos, only she may pull to redline a bit better. Now that I'm hammering out the firmware for Map7 and spraying ample methanol: I have the boost up to 17psi. However, it almost looks like it's having a hard time getting there as I'm still 1-2psi below JB4 target. It is also currently significantly faster than it has ever been. I'm just not sure what, if any, part of this power is coming from the compressor wheels. I am making more power, but who knows if I'd feel the same or not with all this meth and the JB4. I guess that's why it's best to only change one variable at a time.

I also get used to power so quickly that I have a hard time comparing. Heck on my E36 I went from stock to 400, 500, 600, 700hp and to me after each increase in power, it would feel slow again the second day. Which lead me to getting an SUV so I wouldn't be chasing power and wasting money again.

[m5james]

On maps 1 or 3, I'll average I see 15-18 with my setup, highest I've seen is 21 on a cold night while on map 1...which felt AMAZING in an SUV. I've run map 6 and forced 21psi but oddly it'll still only target 18's. Without before and after dyno comparisons, it's anyone's guess. Stupid me, but I fixed my reduced power warnings (you can see the fluctuations right before it kicks the warning) after I'd already had dyno time :-/ At the time I was running a flash tune and kittyless DP's, since then I've gotten a custom intake, JB4 and swapped to colder plugs with tighter gaps. I NEED to get back into a dyno or at least find someone with a reliable GPS based timer. Seeing as you're getting positive results from these wheels, I'm strongly considering doing them vs having mine rebuilt by Turbo Labs of America.

Completely different vehicle, but the same principle applies. I upgraded from an Eaton 1.8l (running 18psi) to a Kenne Bell 2.3l (running 15psi) with a sheetmetal intake and gained over 100hp. I can't imagine the wheel swap is THAT efficient that your psi changed, but I wonder if maybe you had a restriction somewhere that got fixed during the removal, rebuild and/or reassembly.

Lol...how's that last part working out for you :-) I wanna start boosting my E36 328ci just for something different but I LOVE the roominess of the X5M while being a guy who's 6'4".

[gixxerboy63]

Originally Posted by e36bmer

....It is also currently significantly faster than it has ever been. I'm just not sure what, if any, part of this power is coming from the compressor wheels. I am making more power, but who knows if I'd feel the same or not with all this meth and the JB4. I guess that's why it's best to only change one variable at a time.

I also get used to power so quickly that I have a hard time comparing. Heck on my E36 I went from stock to 400, 500, 600, 700hp and to me after each increase in power, it would feel slow again the second day Which lead me to getting an SUV so I wouldn't be chasing power and wasting money again..

Excellent write up!
...and yet this sounds SOoooo familiar!!

I went down the rabbit hole with my supercharged e34 540i Msport and swore I'd never do that again!!!
The X5M was supposed to be turn-key; Just slap a canned tune on and go! No uncharted territory for me!

...But here I am (again) adding downpipes, upgrading turbos, and fumbling around trying to tune it. At least I'm only changing one thing at a time so I can understand what each element adds. The problem is that small steps doesn't add to the sensation of noticeable power, so it doesn't feel like you are making much progress.

At the moment, I'm DP, Pure stg2 and AA tuned for Stg 2: I will be adding JB4 (Stacked), cooler plugs and RK Intakes next.... Not sure where I'm at because no dyno yet (we've been tuning strictly on data logs). George from MSR is going to step in and help out with more tuning and possibly a meth treatment very soon.