S63 X5M to S63 M5 Exhaust Manny and Turbo Questions

[greddy91]

Hello again all...

Carrillo H beam rods on order and Diamond Pistons in hand at my builder.

Bonus hits in two weeks... so now I have a difficult decision on my plate:

Should I upgrade the X5M manifold and turbos to M5 while the build is taking place?

With that in mind a few questions to those of you versed in this upgrade strategy:

1. Is this investment worth it? Should I put focus on S63TU manifolds and turbos instead?

2. Anyone completed the Pure stage 1 or 2 upgrade?

3. Anyone know of a tuner that can successfully tune any of this to max power?

4. What happens if I bolt these up, but don't get a tune?

5. Has anyone successfully completed this upgrade yet?

6. Has anyone mated the M5 intercoolers to the X platform? Is there room? Is heat soak going to be a problem on the original ICs?

Thanks in advance!!!

GH

[Performancedieselpros]

Originally Posted by greddy91

Hello again all...

Carrillo H beam rods on order and Diamond Pistons in hand at my builder.

Bonus hits in two weeks... so now I have a difficult decision on my plate:

Should I upgrade the X5M manifold and turbos to M5 while the build is taking place?

With that in mind a few questions to those of you versed in this upgrade strategy:

1. Is this investment worth it? Should I put focus on S63TU manifolds and turbos instead?

2. Anyone completed the Pure stage 1 or 2 upgrade?

3. Anyone know of a tuner that can successfully tune any of this to max power?

4. What happens if I bolt these up, but don't get a tune?

5. Has anyone successfully completed this upgrade yet?

6. Has anyone mated the M5 intercoolers to the X platform? Is there room? Is heat soak going to be a problem on the original ICs?

Thanks in advance!!!

GH

So from the research I did I went ahead and opted to buy the M5 manifold and matching M5 turbos.

I went with the M5 turbo being they have a better flow factory flow of 22psi(1.5 bar) compared to the 1.2 bar of ours.

From a tuning standpoint everything I found said the s63 and s63TU have the same firing order (1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2), and the tubular manifold design of the s63TU allows for less air collision as found in the factory s63 "log" at the turbo collector. This accelerates the airs velocity and in return better spool.

There should be no specific tune required.

Cost wise it's a no brainer to just do the swap, I have the setup for sale in classifieds currently. Too many diesel prohects and not sure when ill be able to do the swap.

That aside the full swap I believe has the ability to get to 800hp+ on just 93!

From a heat management stand point, try addressing radiant heat first with turbine blankets.

[gixxerboy63]

I'm currently running;
Pure stg2 Turbos, RK intakes, Active Autowerkes DPs, Full Akra titanium exhaust and Active Autowerke custom tune...
Active has upgraded my tune several times as I have added upgrades or components.

I am still running stock manifolds... read somewhere that someone had swapped in M5 manifolds and headers, yet reported a loss in power; (M5james would know who this person is)

Last dyno result on 8/15/17 We are planning on another dyno session to dial it in further, but honestly don't expect more than another 50 hp at most with current mods.
685.7hp and 707.9ft-lbs which translates to 596.3hp and 615.6ft-lbs at the wheels.

....So this rabbit hole has cost me somewhere in the neighborhood of $16k in upgraded engine performance parts alone (Most were acquired at somewhere less than retail:my Akra titanium exhaust was actually purchased at 50% off retail!), so based on average 444hp stock to 596hp modified has been roughly $100 per 1 horsepower! Yeah, it's cool to have a fast SUV, but it is STILL 5300lbs that the added horsepower has to overcome to propel this thing down the road! Your money will be better spent on a platform that has more R&D (read; cheaper cost per HP gained) My AA tune only M4 ($1500) will likely bust the X5M's can anywhere it pleases...

Again, It's really cool to have one of the fastest X5Ms around, but if I had it all to do over again, I would have been happy with just a tune (Still very quick and would have saved myself $15k!)

[Performancedieselpros]

Originally Posted by gixxerboy63

I'm currently running;
Pure stg2 Turbos, RK intakes, Active Autowerkes DPs, Full Akra titanium exhaust and Active Autowerke custom tune...
Active has upgraded my tune several times as I have added upgrades or components.

I am still running stock manifolds... read somewhere that someone had swapped in M5 manifolds and headers, yet reported a loss in power; (M5james would know who this person is)

Last dyno result on 8/15/17 We are planning on another dyno session to dial it in further, but honestly don't expect more than another 50 hp at most with current mods.
685.7hp and 707.9ft-lbs which translates to 596.3hp and 615.6ft-lbs at the wheels.

....So this rabbit hole has cost me somewhere in the neighborhood of $16k in upgraded engine performance parts alone (Most were acquired at somewhere less than retail:my Akra titanium exhaust was actually purchased at 50% off retail!), so based on average 444hp stock to 596hp modified has been roughly $100 per 1 horsepower! Yeah, it's cool to have a fast SUV, but it is STILL 5300lbs that the added horsepower has to overcome to propel this thing down the road! Your money will be better spent on a platform that has more R&D (read; cheaper cost per HP gained) My AA tune only M4 ($1500) will likely bust the X5M's can anywhere it pleases...

Again, It's really cool to have one of the fastest X5Ms around, but if I had it all to do over again, I would have been happy with just a tune (Still very quick and would have saved myself $15k!)

I'm going out on a major limb here and saying I'd bet you'd make better power running a piggy back unit! Jb4 or Racechip GTS black.....

Tunes can be great, but sometimes Tuners can be the issue. Not throwing stones, just saying there's a lot of variables.

Having done ALOT of different turbo builds, I for one see ZERO justification in the pure stage 2 cost.

Even with talking with one of the biggest turbo builders and sellers Jose(Forced inductions in Alabama) who built me an 88mm for my compounds that spools faster than my old 80mm.... he basically chuckled when I asked on modifying these turbos.

2 wheels- $300
Rebuild kits- $300(on the high side)
Machine work- let's say $300 for 3 hours of time on each at $50 per hour!

Stage 2 final cost.... $4k!

You catch my drift.

Down side is if you modify the turbine size and A/R (which from what I havr read Pure does) without increasing fuel injector sizing you'll actually make less power since your changing the position of the "efficient" range of the turbos to much later in the RPM....

Like I posted in last post, call Turbo Performance products (TPP) and talke to Levi about getting some manifold blankets made and also turbo blankets. You WILL ABSOLUTELY see quicker spool, lower underhood temps, and better boost/ power.

Just as a reference, I can go do a wide open run on one of my 1200hp+ trucks and heat it up to a short 1400* exhaust temp sprint, hop out and go put my hands directly on the blankets and keep it there with out being burnt.

Now the header design is by far the biggest improvement you can make.

Using the pics M5James have posted before: the amount of turbulence the air at the exhaust accumulator sees is flat out stupid! Horrific "just cram it in" design. This causes the exhaust pulses to crash against each other which is one of the reasons the s63 feels like it's bogging down in low rpms.

The s63tu was much better thought out and



Now from a weight to power ratio, from a dead stop yes! BUT when in motion gearing and power mean more

Good example is I've got a 13,000lb dually truck that has eaten a 2017 M5 Alive on an open roll from a 60 to 130, but 80psi of boost making almost 2200ft lbs of torque will do that! From a dead stop, no chance in

[Performancedieselpros]

If it makes you feel!better gixxer my trucks transmission alone cost $10k lol, I understand the thought of holy $hit I spent how much....

Yep this truck has about $120k in it, about $60k of that in go fast parts!

[gixxerboy63]

Originally Posted by Performancedieselpros

I'm going out on a major limb here and saying I'd bet you'd make better power running a piggy back unit! Jb4 or Racechip GTS black.....

Tunes can be great, but sometimes Tuners can be the issue. Not throwing stones, just saying there's a lot of variables.

Having done ALOT of different turbo builds, I for one see ZERO justification in the pure stage 2 cost.

Even with talking with one of the biggest turbo builders and sellers Jose(Forced inductions in Alabama) who built me an 88mm for my compounds that spools faster than my old 80mm.... he basically chuckled when I asked on modifying these turbos.

2 wheels- $300
Rebuild kits- $300(on the high side)
Machine work- let's say $300 for 3 hours of time on each at $50 per hour!

Stage 2 final cost.... $4k!

You catch my drift.

Down side is if you modify the turbine size and A/R (which from what I havr read Pure does) without increasing fuel injector sizing you'll actually make less power since your changing the position of the "efficient" range of the turbos to much later in the RPM....

Like I posted in last post, call Turbo Performance products (TPP) and talke to Levi about getting some manifold blankets made and also turbo blankets. You WILL ABSOLUTELY see quicker spool, lower underhood temps, and better boost/ power.

Just as a reference, I can go do a wide open run on one of my 1200hp+ trucks and heat it up to a short 1400* exhaust temp sprint, hop out and go put my hands directly on the blankets and keep it there with out being burnt.

Now the header design is by far the biggest improvement you can make.

Using the pics M5James have posted before: the amount of turbulence the air at the exhaust accumulator sees is flat out stupid! Horrific "just cram it in" design. This causes the exhaust pulses to crash against each other which is one of the reasons the s63 feels like it's bogging down in low rpms.

The s63tu was much better thought out and



Now from a weight to power ratio, from a dead stop yes! BUT when in motion gearing and power mean more

Good example is I've got a 13,000lb dually truck that has eaten a 2017 M5 Alive on an open roll from a 60 to 130, but 80psi of boost making almost 2200ft lbs of torque will do that! From a dead stop, no chance in

Impressive!
I'm likely in way over my head as far as trying to engineer myself a faster SUV... maybe a JB4 stack WOULD make better power? Basically, I picked the wrong platform to modify (limited information availability and essentially, no tuner support). I am NOT an engineer, so I am dependent on tuners who are trying to help me out and by using bolt on parts that are available for my vehicle... I might try the JB4 if my tuner feels good about it, but I'm not likely going to install meth or try any custom, one off custom fabricated parts.

[greddy91]

Originally Posted by gixxerboy63

Impressive!
I'm likely in way over my head as far as trying to engineer myself a faster SUV... maybe a JB4 stack WOULD make better power? Basically, I picked the wrong platform to modify (limited information availability and essentially, no tuner support). I am NOT an engineer, so I am dependent on tuners who are trying to help me out and by using bolt on parts that are available for my vehicle... I might try the JB4 if my tuner feels good about it, but I'm not likely going to install meth or try any custom, one off custom fabricated parts.

When all this is said and done I may have an S63 verified functional JB4 for sale.

I really want some guarantee that I can get to the magical 700hp mark... That doesn't seem plausible. So Now I'm trying to convince myself that 700 flywheel hp would be acceptable. Even that seems like a stretch currently.

The bottom end will be built for it, but I don't want to risk it exploding trying to hit it.

Need a tuner commitment that it can be done, and I don't think that's coming anytime soon.

Not super excited about the risk of pumping e30 on the e30 map again, but it's almost inevitable that I will do so after the build is done.

[Performancedieselpros]

Originally Posted by gixxerboy63

Impressive!
I'm likely in way over my head as far as trying to engineer myself a faster SUV... maybe a JB4 stack WOULD make better power? Basically, I picked the wrong platform to modify (limited information availability and essentially, no tuner support). I am NOT an engineer, so I am dependent on tuners who are trying to help me out and by using bolt on parts that are available for my vehicle... I might try the JB4 if my tuner feels good about it, but I'm not likely going to install meth or try any custom, one off custom fabricated parts.

Agreed, but honestly it's hard to find really any good reliable platforms these days due to cheaper material, excessive electronics, and frankly lack of skill!

Honestly, the Racechip GTS black is beyond impressive with what it has done on the s63TU, making high 11 second cars with just a piggy back and clocking 3.7s 0-60... on ours I haven't seen anyone with one post info, so likely I'll so my own trial and error. Non the less, their advertised #s have been backed and the s63 with one with no change in downpipe should make about 648hp crank... free flow downpipes and you should get to around 670-680hp. Remapping the factory map via signal manipulation works wonders with gassers considering there's a/f ratios.

Likely if I do build this thing to my personal goal of low 11s/ 750hp, it's going to be with a GTS black, downpipe, free flow muffler, the M5 setup with turbos and manifold. Id actually like to do mod for mod runs on the dyno to see whats what.

Definitely say no to drugs lol!

From a reliability stand point, if take any x5m or x6m over a Trail hawk any day , and I like Dodge bramd stuff obviously lol.

Good friend and client of mine has a Demon, and that's just a whole different kind of fun with out the need to "build better".

[BMW-SRT]

from what I know our e70 x5m's have different DME's from M's with the S63tu engine, that's why the tunners\flashes used on those cars wont work on ours.

On an old thread, Terry (n54tech\Jb4) said what our cars need is a backend flash to make big power, he mentioned the n54 and e70 x5m dme's are similar and it wouldn't take much for MHD tunning to crack our DME's and create a back end flash for us. A long while back I contacted MHD and they told me they have to many projects to even consider e70 x5m's.

looking back at the road i took when I upgraded to Pure stg 2's on my n54, A jb4 alone couldn't be used to fine tune the car, I had to get a MHD backend flash to be able to fine tune the car for max power, I had to get a bigger fuel pump, meth...

I have never been able to find any info with those on upgraded turbos on our x5m's, is our stock fuel system maxing out fuel trims, do our cars need a "stage 2 or 3" fuel pump to get big power from stage 2 turbos? Just not enough tuner support on the S63 platform

[Performancedieselpros]

Originally Posted by BMW-SRT

from what I know our e70 x5m's have different DME's from M's with the S63tu engine, that's why the tunners\flashes used on those cars wont work on ours.

On an old thread, Terry (n54tech\Jb4) said what our cars need is a backend flash to make big power, he mentioned the n54 and e70 x5m dme's are similar and it wouldn't take much for MHD tunning to crack our DME's and create a back end flash for us. A long while back I contacted MHD and they told me they have to many projects to even consider e70 x5m's.

looking back at the road i took when I upgraded to Pure stg 2's on my n54, A jb4 alone couldn't be used to fine tune the car, I had to get a MHD backend flash to be able to fine tune the car for max power, I had to get a bigger fuel pump, meth...

I have never been able to find any info with those on upgraded turbos on our x5m's, is our stock fuel system maxing out fuel trims, do our cars need a "stage 2 or 3" fuel pump to get big power from stage 2 turbos? Just not enough tuner support on the S63 platform

S63 uses Siemens MSD85.1

S63TU uses Bosch MEVD17.2.8.

As with most performance applications, Bosch will dominate. Why? I have no clue!

In my opinion until there's bigger fuel injectors or pump(s) there's no need to "fine tune".

[jellish]

Originally Posted by gixxerboy63

I'm currently running;
Pure stg2 Turbos, RK intakes, Active Autowerkes DPs, Full Akra titanium exhaust and Active Autowerke custom tune...
Active has upgraded my tune several times as I have added upgrades or components.

I am still running stock manifolds... read somewhere that someone had swapped in M5 manifolds and headers, yet reported a loss in power; (M5james would know who this person is)

Last dyno result on 8/15/17 We are planning on another dyno session to dial it in further, but honestly don't expect more than another 50 hp at most with current mods.
685.7hp and 707.9ft-lbs which translates to 596.3hp and 615.6ft-lbs at the wheels.

....So this rabbit hole has cost me somewhere in the neighborhood of $16k in upgraded engine performance parts alone (Most were acquired at somewhere less than retail:my Akra titanium exhaust was actually purchased at 50% off retail!), so based on average 444hp stock to 596hp modified has been roughly $100 per 1 horsepower! Yeah, it's cool to have a fast SUV, but it is STILL 5300lbs that the added horsepower has to overcome to propel this thing down the road! Your money will be better spent on a platform that has more R&D (read; cheaper cost per HP gained) My AA tune only M4 ($1500) will likely bust the X5M's can anywhere it pleases...

Again, It's really cool to have one of the fastest X5Ms around, but if I had it all to do over again, I would have been happy with just a tune (Still very quick and would have saved myself $15k!)

The only things you have there making power are the turbos, dp, and tune. The intakes/exhaust are just a massive waste of money. Not being a jerk as those are awesome and good looking parts, but they don't do anything for power. You could have spent half the money and you'd be making the same power. I'd bet you would be making the same power with M5 turbos, too, which would have saved you another few grand.

Originally Posted by gixxerboy63

Impressive!
I'm likely in way over my head as far as trying to engineer myself a faster SUV... maybe a JB4 stack WOULD make better power? Basically, I picked the wrong platform to modify (limited information availability and essentially, no tuner support). I am NOT an engineer, so I am dependent on tuners who are trying to help me out and by using bolt on parts that are available for my vehicle... I might try the JB4 if my tuner feels good about it, but I'm not likely going to install meth or try any custom, one off custom fabricated parts.

As someone who has had the jb4 on an X5M, I wouldn't touch it again. You will get 0 support from BMS with it. They've washed their hands of that product.

My plan is DPs, tune and most likely M5 exhaust manifold and turbos. We'll see how much it makes after that and can compare I guess.

[greddy91]

Originally Posted by Performancedieselpros

S63 uses Siemens MSD85.1
In my opinion until there's bigger fuel injectors or pump(s) there's no need to "fine tune".

Sent you a PM btw...

[jandref321]

Originally Posted by Performancedieselpros

Having done ALOT of different turbo builds, I for one see ZERO justification in the pure stage 2 cost.

Even with talking with one of the biggest turbo builders and sellers Jose(Forced inductions in Alabama) who built me an 88mm for my compounds that spools faster than my old 80mm.... he basically chuckled when I asked on modifying these turbos.

2 wheels- $300
Rebuild kits- $300(on the high side)
Machine work- let's say $300 for 3 hours of time on each at $50 per hour!

Stage 2 final cost.... $4k!

You catch my drift.

Down side is if you modify the turbine size and A/R (which from what I havr read Pure does) without increasing fuel injector sizing you'll actually make less power since your changing the position of the "efficient" range of the turbos to much later in the RPM....

Like I posted in last post, call Turbo Performance products (TPP) and talke to Levi about getting some manifold blankets made and also turbo blankets. You WILL ABSOLUTELY see quicker spool, lower underhood temps, and better boost/ power.

Just as a reference, I can go do a wide open run on one of my 1200hp+ trucks and heat it up to a short 1400* exhaust temp sprint, hop out and go put my hands directly on the blankets and keep it there with out being burnt.

Now the header design is by far the biggest improvement you can make.

Using the pics M5James have posted before: the amount of turbulence the air at the exhaust accumulator sees is flat out stupid! Horrific "just cram it in" design. This causes the exhaust pulses to crash against each other which is one of the reasons the s63 feels like it's bogging down in low rpms.

So...what shop can I call to upgrade my turbos to stage 2 for $1k? We've been trying to hit up TLA in Florida for a while, but getting ignored.

Also, I wonder if you can jut hack off the F10 manifold flange and throw on the E70 flange in its place...I'm not a welder...need more skillz and money

[Performancedieselpros]

Originally Posted by jandref321

So...what shop can I call to upgrade my turbos to stage 2 for $1k? We've been trying to hit up TLA in Florida for a while, but getting ignored.

Also, I wonder if you can jut hack off the F10 manifold flange and throw on the E70 flange in its place...I'm not a welder...need more skillz and money

The hardest part on a turbo rebuild is making sure the shop can balance it. So you could buy the wheels (49-51mm billet 6 or 7 blade), depending on miles and wear replace bearings, then they machine the backplate and cover to accept the wheel.

Those numbers I put out were basically actual parts and labor costs.

You likely could slice and dice, but not sure if that would be a wisest choice considering the difference isn't that huge between the 2.

[greddy91]

I got some insight from a seemingly knowledgable tuner on this subject... TOTALLY makes sense to me why these would see a power loss now.

So...

On the X5M - left side and right side are the two banks the O2s are compensating for...

On the M5 it's the mapped cylinders...

Thus... without some serious (and expensive) rework to the two interacting DME systems that control this the motor will be compensating the wrong cylinders with fuel enrichment.

This pretty much puts to bed why someone would see a power loss from this swap.

It also pretty much ends my pursuit of the manny swap... Instead I'll be focusing on upgrading the Garretts from their current form to something more beastly.

More to follow...

[Performancedieselpros]

So considering the s63 and s63TU share the exact same firing sequence loss of power would physically be impossible unless timing is retarded.


From: http://m5carblog.blogspot.com/2013/0...urbos.html?m=1

"Due to the standard V8 crankshaft considerations, the design of the crankshaft is a crossplane design (see my blog post V8 Crankshaft). However, this inevitably leads to a less than ideal cylinder firing order, which is responsible for the "burble" you hear in a typical V8.

The problem with the V8 burble is that the exhaust pulses on each cylinder bank are irregular. This tends to throttle the exhaust flow. In the case of a turbocharger, the irregular pulses lead to a pulsating acceleration and deceleration of the exhaust turbines which is inefficient. To counteract this problem, BMW designed an ingenious (and patented) "crossbank exhaust manifold".



The illustration above gives the official BMW cylinder numbering convention for V8s, and gives the cylinder firing order in brackets. Note how cylinders 8 and 6 (on the same bank) fire one after another, as do cylinders 2 and 1 The crossplane crankshaft forces this firing order (including the two adjacent cylinders 1 and 2 firing one right after the other which causes heat buildup issues on the cylinder wall they share).

However, despite the uneven firing order, the design of the crossbank exhaust manifold ensures that the turbos each get alternate exhaust pulses, and within each turbo, the pulses alternate between the two scrolls."

[frankenm]

The new manifold design and turbos are used on all the s63 engines except for the e70/71 defiantly a reason for this.

I’m not sure how a better flowing exhaust system is going to hurt performance the design of the current manifold is horrible and clashes the exhaust.

I’m doing this upgrade and will post back results ... cheaper than doing Pure turbos and I wanted to refresh mine after passing 100k

[m5james]

Holy crap, I don't check the forums for a week and all these cool posts pop up

I'm not recalling the name of the member who used S63TU headers before and reported his power loss, but I was never able to get a clear answer as to if he tuned for them. Nevertheless they flow way better than S63 headers, so I'll be using them when I do turbos and see what I can make of it.

Talking with Pure, S63 and S63TU turbos are exactly the same internally AFTER their stage 2 treatment. The S63 turbos will not bolt directly to the S63TU headers without a little machining, but it's nothing crazy by any means...pics are floating around on here somewhere. As for installing S63TU turbos, I've considered it, but I don't know anyone whos actually done it and you've gotta consider they use hard water lines and maybe even different oil feed/drain lines...not saying it can't be done, but for the cost of buying the S63TU turbos and what it might take to make it work, I've leaned more towards having stage 2 turbos made from my stock turbos and getting the machining done to mate them to the S63TU headers for sake of convenience. With that said, theres some almost new S63TU turbos on Ebay for $800 and he's got S63TU headers for sale as well.

I have a completely different experience than neuroclast in regards to my JB4...running stacked is FAR better than tune only for me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but yours was an N63 version self flashed to S63 firmware, yes? It sucks Terry dropped support, but I hope that between the N54 forums and local friends who know their N54 in and out, I've got hope they'll help me tune it further. Logging has helped me resolve misfire/throttle closure issues, then I'm also using it for meth control, so there's that.

[frankenm]

The JB4 I have is the one terry tuned on the x6m I haven’t done anything to it other than install it at this point.

I’m not worried about fitment planning to tear apart everything involved with the turbos, intake, vent pipes, cooling etc

Should be fun

[m5james]

Ohh, nice...I'd love to duplicate your settings if you could before you make any changes.

Gotcha.

Yes, you'll be closer and know more as well, so it's a win win.

[jellish]

Originally Posted by m5james

I have a completely different experience than neuroclast in regards to my JB4...running stacked is FAR better than tune only for me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but yours was an N63 version self flashed to S63 firmware, yes? It sucks Terry dropped support, but I hope that between the N54 forums and local friends who know their N54 in and out, I've got hope they'll help me tune it further. Logging has helped me resolve misfire/throttle closure issues, then I'm also using it for meth control, so there's that.

Yeah, it was after he dropped support for S63 so the only way to get one (new) now. I know a few of you guys are running beta ones so maybe you'll have better experience, but running a converted one (which Terry said should work) was a nightmare. Just like other cars the JB4 supports, there is nothing you can do in the JB4 that you can't do in the DME as far as performance tuning goes. Not saying our DME tuning has progressed to the level of say the 335i guys, but any gains you realize on JB4 are possible to realize on the DME only.

I was also told MHD should (hopefully) be supporting the S63 around summertime. So once that happens pricing for tuning will drop sharply as places like Velos/AA/etc. see that their business model of charging $1500 for a tune is unsustainable.

[jandref321]

I’m having a good experience with my beta JB4...just installed a few days ago. I’m stacked Velos 2+ with JB4 on map1 and its a crazy rocket. I used to have to wait until around 3k rpm for the speed but now it flies starting at 1500 rpm. Way too easy to speed. I had trouble initially because I still had my P3 gauge hooked up and it interfered with the JB4 causing very odd engine behavior. Now I’m trying to trouble shoot a TMAP tap for boost only reading on it. I’m hoping to use the JB4 to run meth in the future also...and need to find a shop to upgrade the turbos