X5M Mid Life Overhaul

[laselvasurf]

Originally Posted by aligoodn

I agree that is a catastrophically wiped bearing shell. The fact that the shell next to it (which I assume came from the adjoining rod) is relatively undamaged points to the clearance variation being too great between the two rod bearings and the loose bearing got all the oil. Path of least resistance.

There are plenty of internet opinions about BMW M engines an 10w60 oil, and the issue is especially confused by BMW switching S62's from 10w60 to 5w30 and then reversing their decision. My opinion, FWIW, is that there is no one correct oil for a specific engine that is universally applicable for all types of use and climates. Higher oil viscosity will create higher oil pressure at the expense of oil flow, and it is the actual flow of oil that cools the bearing surfaces so higher viscosity isn't necessarily better. The oil pressure itself is really just an easy way to verify the oil galleries are pressurized and that oil is reaching all of the parts of the engine that need it. I would encourage you to take oil pressure measurements on the engine before and after trying heavier oil just to see at what rpm the oil relief is lifting and at which point the oil pump can provide no more flow as engine rpms and bearing load rise. You can unscrew the pressure switch on the oil pan and use that as the point for measurement. As you mess with oil viscosity, you will find that thicker oil takes longer to reach steady state temperature and will result in higher oil temperatures than thinner oil.

The rod bearing issue I've seen on S62's (and I've probably done rod bearings on a dozen engines) point to the oil being too thick for the application. Those bearing shells typically look worn, i.e. copper showing, but are not wrecked like your picture. Also of note, all of the bearing shells exhibit similar wear in those engines, which rule out a clearance from a manufacturing standpoint. The overall clearance is too tight, but the variation from rod to rod is not high enough to cause drastic wear differences between adjacent rod ends.

I usually start with manufacturer recommendations for oil weight and then adjust. My usual strategy is to reduce the oil viscosity until hot oil pressure at idle is at the minimum acceptable pressure published in the engine specifications. Most engines will be somewhere in the 10psi range at idle. For my S62, 5W50 seems to make the engine happy. For the S63 engine, 5w30 has been pretty good and I'd be hesitant to go thicker. Thicker oil can be used as a bandaid for bearing clearance, but at the cost of total oil flow to the engine.

Of curiosity did you ever pull an oil sample on the engine with the failed bearing or notice any material in the oil filter?

So much good info, thank you for the detailed response. You clearly know what you're doing, have experience with these and other M motors and I really appreciate your input.

To directly answer your question about my engine, I did not pull any oil samples before the failure. I had only owned the vehicle for 3 months, but had put 4K on it(hence the oil change before the failure). I bought it in TX and drove it home to CA, which is where the majority of those miles came from. When I did the change the oil, it looked better than I expected and there was no noticeable material in the filter or oil. The failure occurred instantly and the vehicle was running perfectly all morning before the failure. I was accelerating somewhat aggressively in manual shift mode and as soon as I shifted from 1st to 2nd the rpms dropped to 0, the car shut off and I coasted to a stop.

[englishtom1596]

Fantastic writeup! Only thing i would have done is get the manifolds and downpipes properly ceramic coated to reduce heat. Other than that, looks like a very thorough job!

[Thecastle]

Excellent write up.

I just want comment on the low temp thermostats... I measured my 2011 X5M was 105c when idling and 95-100C while driving. The X5M has a 105C thermostat that is map controlled to maintain 95C, or there abouts.

Anyway Its good to see that the 90C thermostat actually results in a bit lower temps which should hurt fuel economy, but decrease the rate at which the seals on the engine embrittle, and improve performance slightly. Some folks worry lowered temps will result in higher ring wear. However lower temps should also mean better performance and less timing pulled. The optimum temp for fuel economy is 110C and of course 110C oil ensures all water is boiled off.

On my 4.8i, I used to see 115-118 while driving and swapped in a 90C thermostat and was running around 98C-102C post swap. I think part of this is that the folks making these modded thermostats have a lot of variance in their QC, also most cars will throw a check engine light when staying below 95C, so a lot of the so called 90C thermostats are actually calibrated as 95C to prevent the check engine light.

I'm going to try the swap myself to see if this helps the valve stem seals last a bit longer. Though valve stem replacements on S63's seem to be fairly rare, my dealer has only had 1 X5M that ever needed one and 3 M5's. Probably because the engine runs at lower temps... P.S, my diesel ran at 86C, once the EGR cooler was removed...

[aligoodn]

englishtom1596 The black coating on the downpipes is Jet Hot 2500. I also had the manifold done. I thought about doing turbo exhaust housings, but didn't want to go to the trouble. I figured the downpipes and cats were the primary radiant heat sources.

[philly42]

Originally Posted by aligoodn

philly42 I did not break into the bottom end of the engine. I don't have any reason to believe the N63/S63 engines suffered from rod bearing issues. I know the S62/S54/S85 engines did, but there's long discussions about 10w60 oil and bearing clearances on many internet forums. I own an E39 M5, so I'm well aware of the drama surrounding the S62.

The S63, spec'd with normal oil and not being especially high rpm doesn't suffer from rod bearing issues other than any other engine with extended oil drain intervals as seems to be common place these days. Oil samples out of this motor have been clean, even the initial sample I pulled when I bought the car. I wouldn't consider doing proactive rod bearings in this motor based on what I saw.

Also, just know the HF lift table hydraulics are finicky. I had no issue controlling the table lowering the engine out of the car, but the table didn't have enough umph to raise the table from the fully lowered position. I had to use two floor jacks to help the table out until it got about a foot up and then I could use the table hydraulics alone.

Thanks for the heads-up on the HF lift table.

I've been concerned about rod bearings and timing chain issues with the S63 from hearing a few horror stories from S63 and N63 owners. Though concrete evidence as to the cause was provided. Based on my oil analysis, mine should be good so I'm not rushing to change the bearings.
My oil analysis has been better running 5w-40 than 5w30. So I may stick with the 40 weight with the conditions I'm in.

[X5MBeast]

First off thank you for all the time and pictures you posted.

I'm about to have my dealer do basically the repairs just like you've done in this thread.

I'm not a mechanic, but I do understand some basic concepts.


I'm interested in your catch can set up. Why did you run a dual catch cans? could you have ran one? You can the lines to the filtered ducts for the turbos correct?

How has your catch can set up been working out for you?


Were your valve seals actually worn out? I get that its cheap enough that you might as well do it while your in there.

Is there anything you would or would not have replaced after doing the repairs that you did?

[aligoodn]

It's too early to call on the catch can setup, I only have about 1500 miles on the car since the overhaul. My wife is in a trip this week with her friends and I plan to pull the plugs on the catch cans and check when she gets back.

You could run a single catch can and use some T connections. I blocked the crankcase vent to the intake manifold and plumbed the catch can in between the valve cover vent and the turbo inlet. I wanted to eliminate the portion of the PCV system that is under vacuum as a reliability enhancement. A leaking hose will no longer cause me a vacuum leak and rough running.

The valve stem seals had hardened to the point where they needed replacement, and there's an updated BMW part for them that is supposedly supposed to last longer so I figured why not while I'm in there.

The timing chains and guides looked pretty good, so I wouldn't bother with them at this mileage. Another 100k and the plastic may become brittle and require replacement. I didn't know what condition they would be in and with the N63 engines suffering from timing chain wear I did it anyways since I had already purchased new parts.

I did the fuel injectors, but they wouldn't be required for a stock refresh unless you're getting codes or a bunch of soot on the back of the car. I replaced mine because I was going to tune the car and I wanted the fuel system 100%. I also discovered that someone else had replaced these injectors before and didn't do a good job of cleaning up the bores.

I also replaced the camshaft adjusters and you may not need to. There's a note in the service manual that says if you pull the bolts holding the camshaft adjusters to the cams and there's no copper underneath the bolt heads you need to replace both the bolts and the adjusters. Since I purchased all the parts ahead of time, I went ahead and purchased these. I had no codes or issues with the valve timing, but found no copper under the existing bolt heads so I had to replace this stuff anyways. My engine was a 2010 build, so if yours is later you might not need to worry about this.

Oil consumption is down from 1L/1000 miles to about 1L/4000 miles. I didn't mess with the seals in the turbo cartridge and I'm wondering if that's where my oil consumption is now. If you're going to all the work anyways, I'd look into having the turbo center sections refurbished.

[X5MBeast]

Originally Posted by aligoodn

It's too early to call on the catch can setup, I only have about 1500 miles on the car since the overhaul. My wife is in a trip this week with her friends and I plan to pull the plugs on the catch cans and check when she gets back.

You could run a single catch can and use some T connections. I blocked the crankcase vent to the intake manifold and plumbed the catch can in between the valve cover vent and the turbo inlet. I wanted to eliminate the portion of the PCV system that is under vacuum as a reliability enhancement. A leaking hose will no longer cause me a vacuum leak and rough running.

The valve stem seals had hardened to the point where they needed replacement, and there's an updated BMW part for them that is supposedly supposed to last longer so I figured why not while I'm in there.

The timing chains and guides looked pretty good, so I wouldn't bother with them at this mileage. Another 100k and the plastic may become brittle and require replacement. I didn't know what condition they would be in and with the N63 engines suffering from timing chain wear I did it anyways since I had already purchased new parts.

I did the fuel injectors, but they wouldn't be required for a stock refresh unless you're getting codes or a bunch of soot on the back of the car. I replaced mine because I was going to tune the car and I wanted the fuel system 100%. I also discovered that someone else had replaced these injectors before and didn't do a good job of cleaning up the bores.

I also replaced the camshaft adjusters and you may not need to. There's a note in the service manual that says if you pull the bolts holding the camshaft adjusters to the cams and there's no copper underneath the bolt heads you need to replace both the bolts and the adjusters. Since I purchased all the parts ahead of time, I went ahead and purchased these. I had no codes or issues with the valve timing, but found no copper under the existing bolt heads so I had to replace this stuff anyways. My engine was a 2010 build, so if yours is later you might not need to worry about this.

Oil consumption is down from 1L/1000 miles to about 1L/4000 miles. I didn't mess with the seals in the turbo cartridge and I'm wondering if that's where my oil consumption is now. If you're going to all the work anyways, I'd look into having the turbo center sections refurbished.

Good to know. How many miles are you at now and how much did this all cost you?


I was thinking the same thing about the PCV system. With the cats hitting 1400 degree it only a matter of time before plastic starts deteriorating and causing problems.

My turbos were replaced @ 98K and Injector @ 96K by BMW when the previous owner had it. My turbos should be good.

I have a oil pan, transfer case and vacuum pump leak and power steering pump that's I have to replace so I figure why now get everything done at once.
Based on my calculations I'd say I'm at 1L/2600 miles. I did at mos2 and switch to 5w30 oil from T6 (previous owner) and that decreased some of the oil consumption.

This is mostly driven by my wife but I also get to drive it during the weekend when we go out together.

I purchased the Velos tune and I can tell a little bit of a difference, but I feel like it was a bit over hyped. I will say their customer service is top notch though and I plan on reinstalling it after the repairs.

[aligoodn]

I'm at 124k miles right now. I purchased the car around 74k as an off lease with no maintenance records.

Parts alone, I'm in about $13k for all the work I did. If you don't need to mess with fuel injectors ($2k) or vanos/timing chains ($2400), that cost should be easily under $9k for parts. My most significant external oil leaks were the upper oil pan gasket and the valve covers.

Tune wise, you either need high flow cats or catless downpipes as a first step to unlock the full potential of a turbocharged engine. The lower pressure downstream of the turbine will allow the turbo to make positive manifold pressure sooner in the rpm range. Street driving with the rpms between 1500-3500ish rpms, you will notice the earlier spool and the car will feel much faster because the torque will ramp in sooner and much more aggressively. Strictly doing a tune without other modifications will unlock more peak power, but the spool will remain the same so the power will ramp in just like it did stock.

[X5MBeast]

Originally Posted by aligoodn

I'm at 124k miles right now. I purchased the car around 74k as an off lease with no maintenance records.

Parts alone, I'm in about $13k for all the work I did. If you don't need to mess with fuel injectors ($2k) or vanos/timing chains ($2400), that cost should be easily under $9k for parts. My most significant external oil leaks were the upper oil pan gasket and the valve covers.

Tune wise, you either need high flow cats or catless downpipes as a first step to unlock the full potential of a turbocharged engine. The lower pressure downstream of the turbine will allow the turbo to make positive manifold pressure sooner in the rpm range. Street driving with the rpms between 1500-3500ish rpms, you will notice the earlier spool and the car will feel much faster because the torque will ramp in sooner and much more aggressively. Strictly doing a tune without other modifications will unlock more peak power, but the spool will remain the same so the power will ramp in just like it did stock.

Hit me up if you need something next. I work at the BMW dealership in Charleston so your not to far away. I actually use to drive to washington rd 3-4 times a week to drop off parts at a couple places over there. We think we still have drivers that go to that area.

We have had this one since last month and put 2,000 miles on the motor since then. It just rolled over 129.5k this week.

I'm gonna purchase some Ultimate Racing Catted Down Pipes in next week or two. I have a friend with a BMW B7 that just did catless down pipe and deleted everything else from the downpipes back. I could tell the engine revs more freely. It definitely put a grin on my face, but was bit loud outside the car.

This is our first Twin Turbo BMW. We have a E39 M5 & E46 M3 that have both been super reliable and fun, but my wife does not drive manuals. We got this to travel on road trips and for her to daily. I'm trying to make sure we can enjoy for many miles to come.

[aligoodn]

X5MBeast Thanks for the offer, I'll definitely keep you in mind.

The X5M is my wife's daily. I also own an E39 M5 which is my weekend/fun car. My daily is an old Honda Insight.

[m5james]

Awesome thread, I wish I had the ceiling height for this.

[X5MBeast]

Originally Posted by aligoodn

X5MBeast Thanks for the offer, I'll definitely keep you in mind.

The X5M is my wife's daily. I also own an E39 M5 which is my weekend/fun car. My daily is an old Honda Insight.

Any word back on your catch can set up?

Also did you find your transfer case leaking/or wet?

I’ve seen two in the last week.

[belverud]

Nice work, I wish I had that mechanical ability.

[aligoodn]

X5MBeast Transfer case was clean, other than the engine oil that had been coating it from the oil pan leaks. I have changed the fluid in it twice during my ownership. Of all the driveline components, it seems to be the hardest on fluid, even the automatic trans fluid looks better at the same interval. I changed the fluid at 80k, shortly after buying the car and again with this overhaul (40k on the fluid). It came out surprisingly dark the second time, probably need to do a drain and fill of the transfer case every 30k or so along with the transmission. The differentials themselves don't put a lot of wear material in their fluids so they can be done on a longer interval. Not surprised there's plenty of threads with people having xdrive issues as my experience points to much more frequent fluid changes than BMW recommends. Another example of lifetime fluid really meaning life of the warranty and no longer.

I will probably drain the catch cans next week while I'm off work. The wife has put about 3k on the car since all the work and it will be a good time to check on things. It's only used up about half a quart of oil in that time, so I'm pleased with that. Should only need to add a quart or so total between changes, I usually end up doing oil changes around 8k which is approximately half the recommended BMW interval. Oil sample results show me that I probably could go a bit longer, but its not really worth saving a few bucks in my opinion.

On a total side note, on cold starts with catless downpipes you can hear the turbos whistling while the engine is at high idle.

[X5MBeast]

I bet that sounds sweet at start up! I’m glad to hear that everything is going well with your rig.

My wife is reminding me everyday that she’s hates driving her old Hyundai while she’s waiting for truck to get in the shop.

Our shop just finished putting a new S63 in at X5M this week and they did a S63TU in a M5 about 2 months ago. Both had major engine failures most likely due to highly contaminated oil or oil not being changed enough.

[fareast1]

Your automotive skills humble me.

[aligoodn]

Drained catch cans today, car has 125.5k on it now so about 3k since I did all the engine work and installed the cans. Filled two of these to the brim:



Mostly water, smells faintly of fuel and a tiny bit of oil sludge was present. Car has consumed half a quart of oil in this time and the oil pan is still clean. Looks like I need to be draining these on a reasonable interval otherwise they'll fill up with water.

VF tune is still pulling strong, highly recommended for anyone looking for a good option.

[X5MBeast]

Originally Posted by aligoodn

Drained catch cans today, car has 125.5k on it now so about 3k since I did all the engine work and installed the cans. Filled two of these to the brim:



Mostly water, smells faintly of fuel and a tiny bit of oil sludge was present. Car has consumed half a quart of oil in this time and the oil pan is still clean. Looks like I need to be draining these on a reasonable interval otherwise they'll fill up with water.

VF tune is still pulling strong, highly recommended for anyone looking for a good option.

Glad to hear the catch cans are working well.

I still have yet to purchase some. Every time I look on eBay there’s too many to chose from and it gets confusing.

[hyeprofile]

Nice work. Bought my 2012 X5M at 128,000km in 2018, and she was burning ridiculous amounts of oil (1L/1000km) but reading the forums I assumed it was normal. Had to change a fuel injector in 2019 but I cheaped out and only replaced the faulty one because the old ones were all index 12s so I assumed they might be OK for life (yeah right!)... I also had to change that top cross-over CCV pipe (had gotten brittle from all the heat). She's now past 159,000km and burning 1L/500km, smoking black out of the pipe, and giving me "reduced engine power" very often (multiple cylinder misfire codes leading me to believe it's other injectors carbonned up from oil). So I'm gonna need to change all those injectors, but might as well go for a catch can setup and modify the CCV lines for reliability like you did. The coolant hoses on the top will also need to be modified; they have white residue everywhere!

BTW are you sure that you couldn't do some of this work without dropping the engine out of the car? The AGA tools valve stem seal tool videos says you can replace the valve seals without removing the engine from the car:

If you can change the seals with the engine in the car, I'm also assuming there's enough access to walnut blast the bores no?

[aligoodn]

The only way to get the intake manifolds off without dropping the motor is to pull the cylinder heads. There is simply not enough clearance to get the intake manifolds off with the engine in the bay.

I agree valve stem seals can be done without removing the engine. If you're going to do a bunch of other work having the engine out will make everything else significantly easier.

[hyeprofile]

Thanks. I was hoping that with the engine in the car the intake manifolds could be popped off enough to sneak a walnut blaster and shop vac in there. Guess not.

BTW how are those blocked off intake CCV ports working out? Any issues with rough idling? I'm thinking that Sophisticated Redneck 's suggestion to add a pressure-adjustable check valve (set at ~-8psi) from both intake CCV ports and running it into the catch can might not be a bad idea. Worse case I could always adjust that check valve to almost entirely closed, and just back it off if I get rough idling issues.