X5M Brakes ON X5

[ss89]

Will a complete brake set up (i.e. calipers, rotors etc..) from a X5M fit onto a regular 2011 X5? If so are any modifications needed?

[Medihummer]

All suspension is the same from the x6 30d to the x6m so mechanically it should fit only the question why should you do it except if you have one for free! The worst part of a bmw are its brakes. So if you have to invest in brakes go for an aftermarket make not for bmw two pairs of disks will cost you the same as a full brembo kit only with a pair of bpw disks you will do 5000 miles with aggressive driving and with brembo you will do 50 000 miles same car same driver.
I discussed it with some bmw inside people and asked them why bmw can't put decent brakes in their sportier models! Mercedes, audi, jeep, ford mustang even seat ibiza have real brembo's with at least four pots from factory and mostly they cost a fraction from a bmw. Nowone could tell me why. The only reason i can think of is because they earn big money on the replacement disks

[ss89]

Compared to a stock X5 won't brakes from an X5M be a vast improvement? Also, a full brembo kit runs in the vicinity of $6-7k, to buy new rotors/pads for an X5M is around $1500. And wouldn't BMW still cover rotors/pads under the service plan?

[Medihummer]

Front brembo 384 mm diamter with 4 pot clipers cost around 3300 dollar bmw front rotors and pads cost around 1500 dollar the initial braking performance is very similar at first. The only difference is that the brembo system keeps on braking and doesnt bend after 5000 miles i did about 10 times longer with my brembo system

[ss89]

Aren't the rear brakes on an X5M also better then a stock X5? I looked at getbmwparts and for the fronts and rear it would be around $1500 for the rotors/pads. Considering that a regular X5 doesn't have anywhere near the power an X5M the brakes should last longer. Any input is appreciated.

[smyles]

Is there any scientific proof that M brakes provide shorter stopping distance (and, optionally, better deceleration control) as compared to stock? Brembos compared to M?

[ss89]

From 60mph regular X5 130ft vs X6M 109ft so I presume X5M should be on par with the X6M. Also, does anyone know if any coding will need to be done?

[smyles]

Originally Posted by ss89

From 60mph regular X5 130ft vs X6M 109ft...

Same tires?

[Medihummer]

As i said on my m3 i did not feel a real difference in initial stopping power only the bmw disks warp very fast under intensive use and it makes your steering wheel vibrate under braking also if you go on a circuit you feel very clearly the difference in stopping power. I would really not invest in replacing bmw brakes by other bmw brakes.

[watrob]

These are my front calipers on the X5 M50d, standard fitment, had them painted thou?

Rotors are 385mm

[ss89]

I don't know, its just some info I found online.

[GKyri]

OE brakes are generally a cut about what is on offer in the aftermarket unless you buy niche. Brembos wont do much for general driving I would think but the calipers look great.

A European brake supplier engineering head told me that BMW is the last remaining Euro car maker that still had an engineering focus on braking rather than cost but conceded that is now changing.

All that brake dust you see on your wheels is your X5's brakes working and rotors wearing. That's the price for top braking performance. You won't see that on Japanese cars because they use a totally different (non metallic) formula but generally have a lower brake effectiveness.

I ahve a question on rear brake pads? On my system check it is indicating that the rear pads are wearing much faster than the fronts. Most cars wear out fronts first. I can only conlcude that the rear pad is smaller - maybe because BMW share the rear electronic brake system on a number of their cars?

[watrob]

Originally Posted by GKyri

All that brake dust you see on your wheels is your X5's brakes working and rotors wearing. That's the price for top braking performance. You won't see that on Japanese cars because they use a totally different (non metallic) formula but generally have a lower brake effectiveness.

You don't have to put up with that black dust, the dust comes from the bonding material used to hold the braking material together. I have had ceramic pads for years now on all my BMW's. They just use a ceramic bonding agent in the pad material for standard road use.

And I drove my X5 M50d for 3 days with the oem pads until the ceramic ones arrived from Europe and can tell you I have 75% less black dust and it brakes better also, even the BMW tech from the dealership was impressed.

On my last M-Sport 35d, when I sold it at 73,000klm the ceramic pads & oem rotors had only worn down 35%.

And as far as warped rotors, yes in the aerly days maybe, but the E53 X5 use to get warped rotors with the oem pads anyway, the rotors were to soft, it was a known problem, well it was here in Australia.

[GKyri]

The black dust is mainly metal - from the pad and the rotor. To check wear on your rotor you look at the outside lip that remains as the brake wears the rotor down at point of contact. The reduction in metal (lip vs surface) is generally the fine dust that makes cleaning the wheels so painful. I can't comment on your brake pads but generally non metalic brakes [NAO] have lower braking performance. This is why European cars need metallic (dusty) pads - because they travel at higher speeds and need to brake in shorter distances. At least that's the thinking.

Having seen the video of your M50D and how quick that thing is I would be sticking to metallics and putting up with the dust! For most of us non M guys, you are probably right we could change to a dustless pad, not notice the difference in braking and get the beenfit of shiny wheels.

[ss89]

Can anyone advise if I will have any complications if I install the front and rear brakes of an X5M onto a regular LCI E70 X5?

[watrob]

Originally Posted by GKyri

The black dust is mainly metal - from the pad and the rotor. To check wear on your rotor you look at the outside lip that remains as the brake wears the rotor down at point of contact. The reduction in metal (lip vs surface) is generally the fine dust that makes cleaning the wheels so painful. I can't comment on your brake pads but generally non metalic brakes [NAO] have lower braking performance. This is why European cars need metallic (dusty) pads - because they travel at higher speeds and need to brake in shorter distances. At least that's the thinking.

Having seen the video of your M50D and how quick that thing is I would be sticking to metallics and putting up with the dust! For most of us non M guys, you are probably right we could change to a dustless pad, not notice the difference in braking and get the beenfit of shiny wheels.

Mate, if the black dust was all metal your rotors would be worn out in 12 months, your pads are suppose to wear out not your rotors. Excessive lips or grooves in your rotors means the they are to soft, cheap rotors or to hard a pad (to much metal in pad material)

OEM pads use a carbon / kevlar based bonding agent and yes they have metal in the pads, and there is only a couple bonding agents that can be used otherwise your pads catch on fire.

If you use a ceramic compound pad you get 60-70% less dust, what dust you do get is a combination of pad material ( a combination of some metal, ceramic & kevlar materials in the pad) & rotor material.

I also have a Ferrari and it has ceramic pads & rotors and I get no dust at all, has not metal and out brakes pretty much everything.

My last X5 I ran Carbotech Ceramic pads on oem rotors and after 73,000klm the rotors were tested by a BMW tech and they were still in spec.

The oem pads are soft & so are the standard BMW rotors, that why so much dust is on the wheels, you have to get the combination of soft & hardness right with pads, companies like EBC & Carbotech and others spend months developing their pads.

The ceramic pads I have are a direct oem replacement for my M50d, the M50d is mainly sold in the European countries, UK and now Australia. Europe has Autobahns so they would not be selling these pads in they did not work. Also, the rotors are not the standard X5 rotors, the hub part that protrudes from the surface of the disc is only around 15mm, simular to the X5M rotor but not a floater type and no doubt a hard finish.

You will notice my oem caliper is 3 times the size of a standard X5 caliper and the pad as well, that's what stops the M50d at high speed

I would rather have less dust and spend the extra $170 per rotor and swap them over if they did have excessive wear after 3 years, the rotors are actually cheaper than the pads. The time spent, products & wasted water keeping the wheels clean with oem pads would cost more, because after 3 years you still have to replace the oem pads & 8 times out 10 times the rotors as well.

I wash my car every 2 weeks, with oem pads you have to wash the wheels every week, and it only takes 2 days before the rims are black again, so then you drive around for the next 5 days and they get blacker, then you spend more time washing the wheels than you do actually washing the car. Oh yes, then hosing the black crap off your driveway as well.

I am happy to keep using ceramic pads, have been for years and every year they are getting better R&D on them, yes they cost a few hundred dollars but they last the time you keep the car and that's around 3 years. My last M-Sport X5 35d I sold after 3 years like I said had 65% left on pads & rotors so I did not have to spend any money on it to sell it.

Ps. I will have no lips on my rotors from the pads, nor will I get any, there is a hollow sculptures grove in the inner area next to the hub, my pad protrudes over that inner edge and the pad also protrudes past the outer edge of the disc (in other word my pads are larger than the disc), so I am using all of the disc area.

[GKyri]

All good except for your response that the dust is not from the rotor metal. As you say on your new pads the rotor does not wear and there is no dust. That is not a coincidence - there is no dust because the rotor does not wear.

I will not comment on your brake pad choice but generally the development time for an OE pad is significant and purpose designed for a vehicle.

Anyway lets not argue the point.

[watrob]

The brake compound BMW uses for there pads is universal across the board for all there vehicles, it is only the shape & size of the pad/caliper that changes, the compound type remains the same.

[stealth e70]

Originally Posted by watrob

These are my front calipers on the X5 M50d, standard fitment, had them painted thou?

Rotors are 385mm

These rotors are the same size as the normal X5M but the calipers are vastly different than the ones we get here. NA 'XM' have a 4 pot caliper and that appears to be a single. Cool looking all painted up though.

I measured all the parts of a 2011 X6M and compared to my 08 X5 4.8i you would need the following parts:

Front - Caliper, Pads, Brakelines, Rotors
Rear - Caliper Carrier (the M uses same caliper), Rotors

Looks simple and a fraction of the cost of Brembo etc.

I haven't been able to find a 'low dust' pad for them yet though.

[watrob]

Originally Posted by stealth e70

These rotors are the same size as the normal X5M but the calipers are vastly different than the ones we get here. NA 'XM' have a 4 pot caliper and that appears to be a single. Cool looking all painted up though.

I measured all the parts of a 2011 X6M and compared to my 08 X5 4.8i you would need the following parts:

Front - Caliper, Pads, Brakelines, Rotors
Rear - Caliper Carrier (the M uses same caliper), Rotors

Looks simple and a fraction of the cost of Brembo etc.

I haven't been able to find a 'low dust' pad for them yet though.

I think you may find that the rotors on the X5M are actually 395mm but the calipher is not as wide as on the M50d thus allowing 20" wheels.

[stealth e70]

Originally Posted by watrob

I think you may find that the rotors on the X5M are actually 395mm but the calipher is not as wide as on the M50d thus allowing 20" wheels.

I believe you are correct.

To answer the original question despite all the other brake talk the answer as far as I can tell is yes. The only modification is possibly machining the rear rotor as the center bore may be different. If I ever get to this I will post up.

Is there low dust pads available for the M?

[drg11t]

Hi watrob,

I have a E70 M50d, What brand pads and rotors are you using? for front and rear??? And also where are you buying them from.

Regards Rob