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      01-28-2015, 10:15 PM   #1
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E70 Aligment

Hi, somebody can help me to find a good shop aligment for my bmw X5 in westchester ny.

Thank you.
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      02-05-2015, 10:46 AM   #2
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I know you asked NY, I've had good service on Goodyear places.
I always give the customer rep up front $10 and ask to take care of my car.
Then while the car is being worked on, I give the alignment guy $20 before he even adjust anything. A lot of times, they would tell me that I can stick around while they align my car. I get to see how they pull up the factory specs from their computer and I can watch them do the alignments.
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      02-05-2015, 07:53 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airshaq20 View Post
I know you asked NY, I've had good service on Goodyear places.
I always give the customer rep up front $10 and ask to take care of my car.
Then while the car is being worked on, I give the alignment guy $20 before he even adjust anything. A lot of times, they would tell me that I can stick around while they align my car. I get to see how they pull up the factory specs from their computer and I can watch them do the alignments.
That doesn't make it a good alignment, maybe a nice shop ... but not a good alignment.

If all they do is "align" to factory spec, you will be back within a year complaining about excessive tire wear on the shoulders ...
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      02-06-2015, 05:47 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTT 335i View Post
Hi, somebody can help me to find a good shop aligment for my bmw X5 in westchester ny.

Thank you.
Whats up bro im in Westchester (Yonkers)...if your looking for a good shop go to Gabriel Sports Car in Yonkers, 393 Walnut St. 914-965-1888...I use them for everything and their a BMW certified shop...ask for Frank
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      02-06-2015, 10:19 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAX5 View Post
That doesn't make it a good alignment, maybe a nice shop ... but not a good alignment.

If all they do is "align" to factory spec, you will be back within a year complaining about excessive tire wear on the shoulders ...
For me, I'd prefer stock-tuned chassis for my stock suspension.
Before they touched it, my alignment were off randomly on each side. One side was pointing on the right with positive camber, the other side's the exact opposite, another side is mix of those...
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      02-06-2015, 11:18 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airshaq20 View Post
For me, I'd prefer stock-tuned chassis for my stock suspension.
Before they touched it, my alignment were off randomly on each side. One side was pointing on the right with positive camber, the other side's the exact opposite, another side is mix of those...
If you think that is good, you haven't a clue what a good alignment can do even on a stock car, unmodified suspension. What you describe is just shoddy work, yes it should be matching, but stock is not the best nor ideal in most any case.

-1.0 upwards of -2.5 of negative camber all around can make a HUGE difference in overall cornering performance. On my daily driver/occasional track car, I can run around -1.7 up front, and about -1.0 in the rear. I max out my caster, and no more than 0.01 toe all around. I could run more camber but I am on a budget for tires. I could add some toe-out for better turn in, or toe-in for better straightline stability..

Camber doesn't kill tires, toe does. All cars should have IMO at least -1.0 up front of camber.
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      02-06-2015, 02:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitch808 View Post
If you think that is good, you haven't a clue what a good alignment can do even on a stock car, unmodified suspension. What you describe is just shoddy work, yes it should be matching, but stock is not the best nor ideal in most any case.

...Camber doesn't kill tires, toe does. All cars should have IMO at least -1.0 up front of camber.


Follow these two rules:

Toe (front and rear): close to zero, but not zero. About 0.02 max.

Camber (rear): symmetrical and in center.

Let me know if you you want a visual, showing the actual measurements.
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      10-25-2016, 10:09 PM   #8
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alignment - X5M

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAX5 View Post


Follow these two rules:

Toe (front and rear): close to zero, but not zero. About 0.02 max.

Camber (rear): symmetrical and in center.

Let me know if you you want a visual, showing the actual measurements.
Hi-Jacking this thread a bit since the title is alignment and there was some decent tech info (opinion) shared here...

I would like to pick your brain more, pax5... I have a 2012 X5M and dropped it at the dealer tonight to have it aligned tomorrow. It just had the H&R springs removed and brand new MPSS put on so I wanted to make sure it was done right - and more importantly that I could return and have it done right if not. I have used a local specialty shop on my 08 X5 Sport in the past and they aligned that with minimal negative camber and based on tire life did a great job. I got 47k out of the fronts on that and 24k out of each set of rears - Michelins but not SS. 275/315 setup so no rotating. funny thing was that I wore the CRAP out of the centers on the rears - BOTH sets - even though I noticed it happening and ran lower pressure every time I thought about it. even still, wore the second set out exactly the same way - see pic. other than pressure - WTF would cause a tire to wear like this in the center?!!

and ultimately - what should I tell the dealer I want the alignment spec'd to tomorrow?!! I don't track it and don't drive around town like i'm at the track however I do a TON of long hours highway driving and well, let's just say... at high speeds. so my biggest concern would be straight driving at high speed and tire life/wear.

thanks for your advice/experience...
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Last edited by ep224; 10-25-2016 at 10:25 PM..
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      10-26-2016, 07:13 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ep224 View Post
Hi-Jacking this thread a bit since the title is alignment and there was some decent tech info (opinion) shared here...

I would like to pick your brain more, pax5... I have a 2012 X5M and dropped it at the dealer tonight to have it aligned tomorrow. It just had the H&R springs removed and brand new MPSS put on so I wanted to make sure it was done right - and more importantly that I could return and have it done right if not. I have used a local specialty shop on my 08 X5 Sport in the past and they aligned that with minimal negative camber and based on tire life did a great job. I got 47k out of the fronts on that and 24k out of each set of rears - Michelins but not SS. 275/315 setup so no rotating. funny thing was that I wore the CRAP out of the centers on the rears - BOTH sets - even though I noticed it happening and ran lower pressure every time I thought about it. even still, wore the second set out exactly the same way - see pic. other than pressure - WTF would cause a tire to wear like this in the center?!!

and ultimately - what should I tell the dealer I want the alignment spec'd to tomorrow?!! I don't track it and don't drive around town like i'm at the track however I do a TON of long hours highway driving and well, let's just say... at high speeds. so my biggest concern would be straight driving at high speed and tire life/wear.

thanks for your advice/experience...
1. Follow the rules, posted above:

Toe (front and rear): close to zero, but not zero. About negative 0.02 max.

Camber (rear): symmetrical and in center.


2. BIG mistake going to dealer: a. they charge too much and b. they don't do alignments according to owner requests ... they do it according to BMW published specs. Once they are in the green zone, they've met specs and they charge you. Nothing you can do about, except that you will suffer early tire wear. Highly doubtful they will permit you to come in the shop to watch them do the alignment and say "stop, that's the value I want". Getting 0.02 on toe-in requires patience and time because of equipment drift while adjusting.

3. Go back to your local specialty shop ...

Doing a proper alignment is not rocket science, but BMW dealers sure make it sound that way. Absolutely highway robbery to charge 200% more than anybody else. Downright insulting. Same for engine coolant flush ...

PS. Don't know about your tire wear ... haven't a clue ... aftermarket suspension components? Looks like you have some cupping going on on the edges ...
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      10-26-2016, 01:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAX5 View Post
1. Follow the rules, posted above:

Toe (front and rear): close to zero, but not zero. About negative 0.02 max.

Camber (rear): symmetrical and in center.


2. BIG mistake going to dealer: a. they charge too much and b. they don't do alignments according to owner requests ... they do it according to BMW published specs. Once they are in the green zone, they've met specs and they charge you. Nothing you can do about, except that you will suffer early tire wear. Highly doubtful they will permit you to come in the shop to watch them do the alignment and say "stop, that's the value I want". Getting 0.02 on toe-in requires patience and time because of equipment drift while adjusting.

3. Go back to your local specialty shop ...

Doing a proper alignment is not rocket science, but BMW dealers sure make it sound that way. Absolutely highway robbery to charge 200% more than anybody else. Downright insulting. Same for engine coolant flush ...

PS. Don't know about your tire wear ... haven't a clue ... aftermarket suspension components? Looks like you have some cupping going on on the edges ...
Thanks for the reply PAX. I'm gonna give the dealer a shot - reasons I can't post here.

I spoke to my shop and the owner told me they aligned the 08 as close to spec as possible and made sure they weighted it per BMW. Aside from the center wear issue (no aftermarket components) I was really happy with the results. I think the wear in the rears was a combination of pressure and temperature and speeds.

As for the actual specs for the 12, they're gonna work with me and I'm gonna likely split the difference between what you guys suggest and the spec - only because of the success with the 08 to spec. Although... Looking at that pic I guess that's not success.

Last question... Bad toe alignment would show in what kind of tire wear?

And, thanks again man I really appreciate the help
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      10-26-2016, 05:43 PM   #11
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I'm pretty sure the Michelin latitudes u had have a tendency to wear out in the middle. I have the same tires and they wore exactly the same, even with the toe close to zero and rears centered !
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      10-26-2016, 08:04 PM   #12
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I can confirm the latitudes have worn the same on both of my X5's as well.

My alignment settings are below:

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      10-26-2016, 09:15 PM   #13
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[QUOTE=azm3;20765925]I can confirm the latitudes have worn the same on both of my X5's as well.

QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by E70x5 View Post
I'm pretty sure the Michelin latitudes u had have a tendency to wear out in the middle. I have the same tires and they wore exactly the same, even with the toe close to zero and rears centered !
This actually makes excellent sense... Because it just looks like the tire is weaker in the middle and swells at speed. It's the most screwed up looking wear pattern I've ever seen... And I ran them close to 30 lbs!!

Last edited by ep224; 10-26-2016 at 09:41 PM..
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      10-27-2016, 04:35 PM   #14
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30psi you say?
My only guess was that the tire was severely OVER inflated, pushing out the centers.
Could the same possibly happen if the tire was under-inflated also, possibly not stretching to max or giving the tire enough strength to hold it's shape, then rotational forces allow the center to expand more than the edges?

Dunno, but now with two guys saying same thing on those exact tires I would stay far away! Can you validate others experience using same tires?
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      10-27-2016, 05:51 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by ep224 View Post
Thanks for the reply PAX. I'm gonna give the dealer a shot - reasons I can't post here.

Last question... Bad toe alignment would show in what kind of tire wear?

And, thanks again man I really appreciate the help
You'll regret it ... "aligning as close to spec as possible" is useless.

Tire wear will show up as excessive wear on shoulders within 5K miles. Once that happens, your $300+ tires are junk!
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      10-27-2016, 10:05 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAX5 View Post
You'll regret it ... "aligning as close to spec as possible" is useless.

Tire wear will show up as excessive wear on shoulders within 5K miles. Once that happens, your $300+ tires are junk!
you may very well be right - although I didn't mean to say I was going to align as close to spec like they had before. here's where I asked them to put me (I had said I was going to try to split the difference):

FRONT
Camber: -0.1
Toe: 0.1 (I want a little toe in for straightaway stability at higher speeds)

REAR
Camber: -1.0
Toe: 0.00

I will update with the actual values tomorrow and will follow up with updates of tire wear at 5k and 10k... which unfortunately for me comes kinda quick.

thanks again everyone for your input!
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      10-27-2016, 10:09 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by heatmizr View Post
30psi you say?
My only guess was that the tire was severely OVER inflated, pushing out the centers.
Could the same possibly happen if the tire was under-inflated also, possibly not stretching to max or giving the tire enough strength to hold it's shape, then rotational forces allow the center to expand more than the edges?

Dunno, but now with two guys saying same thing on those exact tires I would stay far away! Can you validate others experience using same tires?
YES - between 30 and 32.5 depending on temperature and whether or not I was on a long trip. that is LOW... and I still experienced that unusual center wear.

...and it was THREE of us saying the same thing. I will never buy those latitudes again. they were the only all season I could find at the time. I have since gone to an MPSS/Pirelli I&S rotation.
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      10-28-2016, 04:19 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ep224 View Post
...
FRONT
Camber: -0.1
Toe: 0.1 (I want a little toe in for straightaway stability at higher speeds)

REAR
Camber: -1.0
Toe: 0.00
You are off by a factor of 10 on the the front toe ...

They'll have absolutely no problem hitting 0.1 .... it's trying to hit 0.01 that's the challenge.

Rear would be perfect, but I bet they'll come up with a number much greater than that.

Please share the print out results.
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      02-20-2017, 08:08 AM   #19
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Any update pls?
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