Installing Catch Cans on N63 & S63 Engines

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by 0-60Motorsports

That is an awesome DIY. Thank you so much for posting it. If i wanted to get the Fuel line hoses what size and length shall i get? Thank you

Thanks I'll have to check on the hose size, I have my old notes and some pics buried on an old laptop I will dig up and post here shortly

[0-60Motorsports]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

Thanks I'll have to check on the hose size, I have my old notes and some pics buried on an old laptop I will dig up and post here shortly

Thank you.

[sgtmudkipz]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

Thanks I'll have to check on the hose size, I have my old notes and some pics buried on an old laptop I will dig up and post here shortly

Any chance you can elaborate on the main difference if doing this on a S63TU? Something about air cleaners that are only on the N63? Will I need to tee/splice anything vs your instructions?

Also I'm wondering how I might best adjust the vacuum without a mechanical boost gauge. Any more info on how you did the adjustment would be appreciated i.e. with the engine at idle and warm. I do have bootmod3 and ista so that might help.

Sorry to ask so much, some of this will probably become more clear once I better understand the CCV system.
Many thanks for sharing this with the community.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by sgtmudkipz

Any chance you can elaborate on the main difference if doing this on a S63TU? Something about air cleaners that are only on the N63? Will I need to tee/splice anything vs your instructions?

Also I'm wondering how I might best adjust the vacuum without a mechanical boost gauge. Any more info on how you did the adjustment would be appreciated i.e. with the engine at idle and warm. I do have bootmod3 and ista so that might help.

Sorry to ask so much, some of this will probably become more clear once I better understand the CCV system.
Many thanks for sharing this with the community.

Intakes are completely different on S63 & N63 however connections to the Catch cans are basically the same, the main difference is the cross connections from intake to intake the S63 has with the CCV lines. You can eliminate these and duplicate what I have done on the N63. I can post more pics if you need.

You will need a vacuum gauge to know where you are at with vacuum and to make sure everything is working right. you dont have to permanently install it. Just tap the oil filter cap like i did and run the line into the cabin through the door jam. (I can post pics on this too if you like) What you are looking for is to pull around negative 8-10 psi at idle, and to make sure that there is no boost leak back into the crank case so under acceleration with the turbos engaged it should read -1 or 0.

After this is set you can remove the vacuum gauge and put a small rubber cap on the tap you added to the oil cap.

I will say you may want to hold off on this a bit, I am going to take this to the next level and add an header evacuation system to this and route the CCV tubes that normally run to the intake to the exhaust. (Basically the tubes you see running to your intake will instead running to a pair of Bernoulli tubes welded to the lower exhaust collectors).

This is a very old-school way of having negative vacuum in the crank case without having to route the crankcase fumes back into the intake. It would also greatly simplify the CCV system

It should improve performance throughout the engine band and no more combustion gases being recycled back in to the intakes.

I do not know how this will effect the tuning (if at all), will know more this weekend, going to baseline the truck tonight and then do a before and after test. Will post results back then.

[m5james]

Originally Posted by sgtmudkipz

Any chance you can elaborate on the main difference if doing this on a S63TU? Something about air cleaners that are only on the N63? Will I need to tee/splice anything vs your instructions?

Also I'm wondering how I might best adjust the vacuum without a mechanical boost gauge. Any more info on how you did the adjustment would be appreciated i.e. with the engine at idle and warm. I do have bootmod3 and ista so that might help.

Sorry to ask so much, some of this will probably become more clear once I better understand the CCV system.
Many thanks for sharing this with the community.

To expand it even further, the S63 and S63TU have completely different CCV systems. I'm on my work computer now so I can't attach pics but there are threads floating around about this and pics are shown between the two systems.

[sgtmudkipz]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

Intakes are completely different on S63 & N63 however connections to the Catch cans are basically the same, the main difference is the cross connections from intake to intake the S63 has with the CCV lines. You can eliminate these and duplicate what I have done on the N63. I can post more pics if you need.

You will need a vacuum gauge to know where you are at with vacuum and to make sure everything is working right. you dont have to permanently install it. Just tap the oil filter cap like i did and run the line into the cabin through the door jam. (I can post pics on this too if you like) What you are looking for is to pull around negative 8-10 psi at idle, and to make sure that there is no boost leak back into the crank case so under acceleration with the turbos engaged it should read -1 or 0.

After this is set you can remove the vacuum gauge and put a small rubber cap on the tap you added to the oil cap.

I will say you may want to hold off on this a bit, I am going to take this to the next level and add an header evacuation system to this and route the CCV tubes that normally run to the intake to the exhaust. (Basically the tubes you see running to your intake will instead running to a pair of Bernoulli tubes welded to the lower exhaust collectors).

This is a very old-school way of having negative vacuum in the crank case without having to route the crankcase fumes back into the intake. It would also greatly simplify the CCV system

It should improve performance throughout the engine band and no more combustion gases being recycled back in to the intakes.

I do not know how this will effect the tuning (if at all), will know more this weekend, going to baseline the truck tonight and then do a before and after test. Will post results back then.

Thanks for the reply and all of the wonderful additional info. Will definitely pick up a vacuum gauge; great tip on tapping the oil cap for vacuum.

I've seen the bernoulli exhaust thing before on a mazdaspeed3 and on some older big horsepower hondas ("crank vents" ?).

With the header evacuation system I assume you just plug all the intake side stuff and then it's just crankcase <-> check valve <-> catch can <-> exhaust right? Only difference being exhaust vs intake for the vacuum source.
Does anything get deleted / capped / plugged? Intuition tells me I'll probably need to cap off the intake used as the vacuum source?

I did already order all the stuff in your BOM on the first post because I suspect my OEM lines are leaking and I'm doing coils/plugs soon. Do you think it's feasible/worthwhile to install your current setup then later switch to your new setup after you've prototyped it? Would it just be matter of plugging the intake vacuum source and hooking up to the newly tapped exhaust (and maybe moving/adding a check valve)? Or am I missing something more major.

I might end up holding off since I don't need the truck at the moment. Luckily Amazon doesn't mind accepting returns lol.

Thanks again for all your info; this platform is still a little daunting for me even with my experience wrenching on past e90s and M cars.

[sgtmudkipz]

Here's a good breakdown of the CCV system with lots of relevant diagrams/pics from newtis/realoem:

https://www.xbimmers.com/forums/show....php?t=1245651

**EDIT** ...which redneck has already dropped a lot of wisdom in to lol.

I'll definitely pitch on on writing this up, even though most of the hard work is already done.

[m5james]

Above is the thread I was referring to, thanks. I bought Travis' setup before he moved onto the F85. Sophisticated's write up is way more helpful for those looking for an A-Z setup.

[clueless69]

its good setup in hot climate how about winter i think thus metal houses get ease cloaked in cold weather should i just go with silicone /rubber houses for catch cans.by do way very cool looking set up!

[IN-FLT]

Curious all who have done this, how's been holding up? Opinions of mod over time? Anything you'd do differently?

[Dawgz]

Originally Posted by IN-FLT

Curious all who have done this, how's been holding up? Opinions of mod over time? Anything you'd do differently?

Installing a catch can on these is very beneficial. I have probably a thousand miles on mine now since the install and have about half a water bottle full of collected vapors that would have otherwise been sitting on the throttle body and valves.

[Kdawg550GT]

Excellent parts list but I have a question about the vinyl tube you have running from your oil cap. What's that all about?

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by Kdawg550GT

Excellent parts list but I have a question about the vinyl tube you have running from your oil cap. What's that all about?

Its tube that runs to an oldschool vacuum gauge I have temporary mounted in the cabin so I could monitor the crankcase vacuum. I used it to help set the crankcase vacuum when I first installed the check valves on the catch-cans.

[Kdawg550GT]

I installed this exact system from a previous thread you posted. I have a couple questions. I used your idea of fabricating a spare oil cap and vacuum gauge. Im running roughly -8 psi vacuum at idle. Sure sucks the oil cap down at that reading. Have you found that vacuum increases with higher RPM? Ive also seen a service bulletin from BMW that says vacuum should be at 15 mBar which is .02 psi. This seems to conflict with the -8. All this concerns me a bit as sometimes I spool up nicely and other times the turbos don't spool at all. Just wondering if you've run into this. BTW turbos were completely rebuilt and when she's on she pummels asphalt.

Your thoughts?

Second. I found a set of JEGS One-Way Check Valves to replace the clunky CCV's and modified the flapper to just hang there. I like the look and have not burned a drop of oil in over 1k miles.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by Kdawg550GT

I installed this exact system from a previous thread you posted. I have a couple questions. I used your idea of fabricating a spare oil cap and vacuum gauge. Im running roughly -8 psi vacuum at idle. Sure sucks the oil cap down at that reading. Have you found that vacuum increases with higher RPM? Ive also seen a service bulletin from BMW that says vacuum should be at 15 mBar which is .02 psi. This seems to conflict with the -8. Your thoughts?

Second. I found a set of JEGS One-Way Check Valves to replace the clunky PCV's and modified the flapper to just hang there. I like the look and have not burned a drop of oil in over 1k miles. All this concerns me a bit as sometimes I spool up nicely and other times the turbos dont spool at all. Just wondering if youve run into this. BTW turbos were completely rebuilt and when shes on she pummels asphalt.

Vacuum will actually decrease with rpm as the throttle plates open and the turbos come on. Your strongest readings will be at idle and cruising with little throttle. Mine pulls -10psi and idle and around -6psi at highway speeds. It quickly drops to zero once you get on the throttle as there is no more vacuum in the lower intake manifolds and the slight vacuum made in front of the turbos for the secondary CCV connections are barely enough to keep the crankcase at zero pressure.

Yes the BMW engineers in charge of the CCV system need to dragged into the street and publicly humiliated for their incompetence. A new class action lawsuit was just won against BMW with the N63TU burning oil due to their poor engineering of the inadequate CCV system and valve stem seals. That's over a decade to fix the issue and they have not. BMW is made up of different engineering teams, some brilliant, some absolute incompetent idiots (or possible Mercedes saboteurs). I personally believe the idiots in charge of the CCV system at BMW are the same idiots that still to this day say transmission fluid does not need to be changed and lasts a lifetime....

Less oil consumption, less oil leaks, better sealing of the piston rings are all benefits. There are zero downsides to running CC pressures at -10psi, other then the cost of the system. I'm at nearly 180k miles, burn less then half a liter every 5k oil change , and my rear main seal which was leaking like crazy before I installed the CCV system stopped and had not produced a drop of oil in 80k miles since I installed the system.

Perhaps that is just it, a proper CCV system would cost BMW to much money in terms of lost service fees and people trading in their "leaky oil burning" rides for the newest model.

When you say the turbos don't spool, do you mean they fail to generate boost and the truck is slow or do you mean you just don't hear them spool?

That's awesome news in the one way from jegs, I'll check them out.

[Kdawg550GT]

It’s the strangest thing. Currently running full cat and muffler delete with stage II flash. I’ve replaced boost solenoids throttle bodies and previously mentioned turbos. Reset adaptations and away she went. Ran into a turbine seal leak and replaced gasket and ran like shit so I reset adaptations again. Throttle response ok. she wound up the rpM’s and turbos kicked in.. move on to this morning. Drop the hammer (because I drive it like I stole it) nothing felt in seat except loud ass exhaust.. kind of embarrassing. I’m scratching my head on this one as it’s intermittent.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by Kdawg550GT

It’s the strangest thing. Currently running full cat and muffler delete with stage II flash. I’ve replaced boost solenoids throttle bodies and previously mentioned turbos. Reset adaptations and away she went. Ran into a turbine seal leak and replaced gasket and ran like shit so I reset adaptations again. Throttle response ok. she wound up the rpM’s and turbos kicked in.. move on to this morning. Drop the hammer (because I drive it like I stole it) nothing felt in seat except loud ass exhaust.. kind of embarrassing. I’m scratching my head on this one as it’s intermittent.

Hmm, you should be throwing codes if its that far off on boost. I would find out what your boost pressure is. If your running a stage 2 (I assume from ESS) then you should be around 12-14psi, depending on ambient temps. I installed pressure gauges on mine, video below and you can see how quickly it builds boost with a stage 2 ESS tune + map3 JB4 and some experimental intakes. Yours should be similar to 12-14psi. If your not for installing gauges, I would grab one of the OBII apps and a elm327 adapters so you can see what your boost is in real time. Also good videos up on youtube on how to test for high pressure leaks using a flexible pvc coupling and cap. The 2inch PVC coupling from home depot fits our intercoolers perfectly. Also the charge tubes from our turbos to intercoolers contain a critical o-ring that can fail and will cause a massive boost leak. Lastly, make sure the one way valve on your CCV setup for the lower CCV line is working properly and not causing a boost leak into the crankcase.

[Kdawg550GT]

My laptop nuked so I’m waiting on shipping for new one. I’ll run ista when I’m back online as I’m sure I have codes.

Regarding the boost gauges… I saw that fitting you fabricated in some of the pics above. I’ve been searching for that connection since I saw it. I know Dinan makes an adapter that fits where the map sensor goes but I prefer what you have going there. What set up did you buy? I’ve also seen (only one so far) a dual boost gauge in a single set up. It looks cheap tho.
I like your digital set. You should throw links out for that set up. 🙏🏽

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by Kdawg550GT

My laptop nuked so I’m waiting on shipping for new one. I’ll run ista when I’m back online as I’m sure I have codes.

Regarding the boost gauges… I saw that fitting you fabricated in some of the pics above. I’ve been searching for that connection since I saw it. I know Dinan makes an adapter that fits where the map sensor goes but I prefer what you have going there. What set up did you buy? I’ve also seen (only one so far) a dual boost gauge in a single set up. It looks cheap tho.
I like your digital set. You should throw links out for that set up. ����

Here are the parts you need. Better then the Tmap port as since we are tapping the lower CCV line, it shows the true boost reaching the cylinders since its after the throttle plate.

https://www.amazon.com/ACEFLOW-6AN-P.../dp/B088KLRQVD

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XRZD92P

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0838KY7DN

Also I have since switched to the dual vacuum/boost gauge instead of just boost. Highly recommend it over just boost only gauge

https://www.amazon.com/MaxTow-Double.../dp/B0095Z2C2A

PM me if you want one of the gauge pods, I make the A-Pillar and the Vent mount. A-Pillar is stackable up to 3, Vent mount is available in single, double, or triple. I have since switched to the vent mount, A-pillar was just a bit to much "in your face" presence if you know what I mean. I will eventually produce a few dozen and put them up on Amazon/Ebay after I finish the turbo inlets/cold air housing/intakes which are consuming all of my time right now.

[Kdawg550GT]

“one way valve on your CCV setup for the lower CCV line is working properly and not causing a boost leak into the crankcase.”

Which one is this? The one that connects to the brass one way valve?

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by Kdawg550GT

“one way valve on your CCV setup for the lower CCV line is working properly and not causing a boost leak into the crankcase.”

Which one is this? The one that connects to the brass one way valve?

Correct, make sure your brass one way valve is sealing from boost pressure, you can test pretty easy by applying 20psi of compressed air to it and making sure nothing leaking past.

[bad///Mechanic]

Originally Posted by Kdawg550GT

Second. I found a set of JEGS One-Way Check Valves to replace the clunky CCV's and modified the flapper to just hang there. I like the look and have not burned a drop of oil in over 1k miles.

I'm interested in those as well but not sure which check valves fit. Could you post a link to the ones you got? Also interested in what you had to do to modify the flapper.

Is the CCV similar between N63 & S63? Sorry I'm sure that's a noob question. But I'm a noob!

b///M