HELP! Headlight restoration swirls showing!

[conandrum]

I am trying to restore my headlights.
I started by wet sanding them with 800, 1000, 2000 and 3000 grit sandpaper.
When all shine was removed the headlight was all foggy.
Then I proceeded to polish them using a dual action polisher.
I used a medium pad with Sonax cutmax 6/4 and finished with a finishing pad and 3D One.
(As this was my first ever time doing this, I started out very conservatively, moving the pads quickly over the surface of the headlight and I did not let the polish dry. I think this led me to go over the headlight 4 or 5 times by the time I was happy with it.)
However, inspecting the headlights under a light shows that it is far from perfect. Swirls and light scratches can be seen. See videos below.

What do you guys think? Is this it? Should I call it a day?
Or do you think I can achieve a much better result (provide me with some instructions)?

How I did the job...

Results under a flash light.

Results with headlights turned on.

Thanks!

UPDATED 01 08 2023 - The BEFORE photos

[Daytonawim]

My guess is that the 800/1000 was a little bit to mutch, the scratches I see are not from the polish machine.

Also jou will need to use some stuff to protect the plastic, maybee that stuff will fill the scratches.

[conandrum]

I will use 3M ppf after the polishing is done. I am hesitant to apply the film at the moment as I am not sure if the PPF will cover or enhance the scratches.
This is why I need help from a pro or at least someone with experience in this matter.
How do I proceed do you think?

[Daytonawim]

My two cents, are that try to polish the scratches out will generate quite some heat, plastic hate heat.

I would try to, wet sand with 1500 or 2000, and see if the scratches will disapear.

Butt check 3 times that there is no sand on the headlight or in the waterbowl.

[conandrum]

Originally Posted by Daytonawim

My two cents, are that try to polish the scratches out will generate quite some heat, plastic hate heat.

I would try to, wet sand with 1500 or 2000, and see if the scratches will disapear.

Butt check 3 times that there is no sand on the headlight or in the waterbowl.

Can you explain more about your last sentence? What do you mean? Do you mean to be careful not to be rubbing the sand on the headlight? ie. keep water spraying while sanding to remove all debris from under the sandpaper? I usually spray loads of water to keep the sandpaper moving freely without much resistance, and every so often I also spray the sandpaper's abrasive side to get it unclogged.
Is this what you mean?

[conandrum]

Today I went ahead and sanded the left headlight with 2000 grit horizontally and 3000 grit vertically.
I then used compound on a wool pad on the DA polisher.
These are the results.


I can say that there is huge improvement in the middle of my headlight. However there are loads of micro-scratches left most of which look like glitter and some like spider web lines. These seem to be limited to the area in front of the "inner light".

I also tested a bit of ppf to see if it can mask these hairline spider webs and I cannot say that it did. They were still visible. (will have to use distilled water when I do the installation).

In the meantime, I think I have more sanding to do tomorrow.

More details in the video - your input is appreciated.

[jbash87]

Wool pads are typically used for pretty heavy cutting when detailing a car. Not sure if it works the same on plastic, but you might try a lighter cutting foam pad instead?

[conandrum]

The only reason I tried a 5" wool pad on my polisher is because a headlight restoration kit includes it (3"). I have this kit :

The only thing I used from this kit was the 3" drill back-plate and the 3" wool pad, back on day one, when I first posted here. So yesterday I thought to try a 5" wool pad on the DA thinking that I may need more cutting power.
I do not know if the wool pad helped, but the results show improvement.
I have seen online use of cutting compounds, with wool and MF pads also, with no problems. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/IWvew0mCU5s

[garrypeterson]

I wouldn't go for perfection on the un-coated plastic. I tried that before and they looked horrible again after a few months of UV exposure. I re-did them, only sanded to 800 then a 2K clear that is far more resistant to UV. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Daytonawim]

Originally Posted by conandrum

Can you explain more about your last sentence? What do you mean? Do you mean to be careful not to be rubbing the sand on the headlight? ie. keep water spraying while sanding to remove all debris from under the sandpaper? I usually spray loads of water to keep the sandpaper moving freely without much resistance, and every so often I also spray the sandpaper's abrasive side to get it unclogged.
Is this what you mean?

What I try to explain, is that you should be carfull to don’t get sand in the water, headlight or on the sandingpaper while you are sanding or polishing.

Bit I also go along with the fact, that it will be hard to get it (to) perfect.

[conandrum]

I think I am almost there with the left headlight. Also I have to say thanks to everyone providing guidance.
I understand that perfection will be impossible with the bare plastic - thanks for pointing that out. However, in the pursuit of a better finish, the visbella kit provides a clearcoat liquid - should I use that before adding the PPF?

Anyway the progress today was slow and painful. I sanded all the way from 1000, 2000, 3000 with the headlights on, so that the hailine scratches were visible. I managed to erase all of the lines, but some dots are still visible and no matter how much I tried to erase those, it was impossible (maybe they are cracks from stones?).
The compound/polishing has not left a mirror finish though. I started with the SPTA yellow foam pad with Sonax cutmax but it had much to be desired.
I switched over to the SPTA wool pad with Sonax... same thing.
Then tried wool & the Visbella compound twice and still far from a mirror finish.

What am I doing wrong here? Very disappointed today!

Here is a video of the progress.

[conandrum]

This is today's update.
Polished with compound, Sonax and 3D One, and tried to apply a bit more downward force on the DA polisher. The result is better than yesterday but still not a mirror finish.
Is a mirror finish even possible? Please tell me what I am doing wrong!

Tomorrow I will start working on the right headlight, so I still have a couple of days before I will apply a liquid or film protection and get this adventure over with.

[conandrum]

Question: Do you guys think that the visbella liquid will self level? or will it create problems for me (e.g. grooves, gaps, waves,) when I try installing the PPF on top of it?

Report:
I think I am getting to the desired outcome.

Working on the right headlight since yesterday, which was the first one I worked on, I discovered that those shiny lines could actually be removed. I quickly found out that 1000 grit was not enough and that loads of elbow grease was required. Took be about 4 hours working only with the 800 grit. This is strange because if they were created by the 800, 7 days ago, they would logically be easy to remove with 800.
This leads me to suppose that they were either there from the factory and the clear-coat was hiding them, or they were cracks in the plastic due to stones or aging, or my previous sanding was rubbing large particles onto the surface.
I think it most probably was stone cracks... possibly because some of these lines after getting sanded, ended up as a single dot along that line which I could not remove because it would be so much harder than the rest of the line (which was already a PITA!). Just a hypothesis.

Today I sanded from 1000/1200/2000/3000 and then polished with DA, yellow rupes & visbella compound, red spta pad & sonax cutmax, black spta pad & 3d one.

Tips on sanding:
0. TAPE AROUND THE HEADLIGHT!
1. ALWAYS turn headlights on fully and keep a charger on the battery. It will allow you to do a much better job.
2. Keep moving your point of view - plastic is hiding its problems from you.
3. Do not be afraid to sand, but do not dig holes into the plastic. Both Fear and Stupidity are your enemies.
4. Do not go to a low grit paper unless it is necessary. If you can remove a scratch mark with 1000 grit in a few minutes then stay there. If you cannot, then go lower and try again for a few minutes before going glower. The lower you go, the harder it will be to smooth those grooves out.
5. If your mark or line is hard to remove by moving the paper in one direction, then try the other direction or even a circular pattern, but keep it local...very local...Do not be afraid to use force but not stupid force and only if you see that it is necessary! Some marks only need 3000 grit gliding softly over them for a few minutes!
6. Use a small piece of sandpaper... I usually worked with 1/16th of the sheet and sometimes found it more prudent to use half of that.
7. When sandpaper is new it leaves deep scratches, even 3000grit. So in the beginning take it easy and just glide it without pressure until it gets a bit blunt... and then you can push it down more.
8. When changing sandpaper to a higher grit, e.g. 800 to 1000, change direction e.g. vertical to horizontal. Use your eyes and try to flatten the previous highs, without creating new lows. e.g. if a huge sandpaper is coming down to flatten Everest, we do not also want it to open a new ocean also!
9. PATIENCE - if you do not have this, your results will be rushed by default! I think that realistically, if I had to start from the beginning, I would require 5-8 hours non-stop on each light, because I removed all clear-coat and went for a (near)mirror finish because I wanted PPF straight on plastic.

Tips on polishing:
0. TAPE AROUND THE HEADLIGHT!
I went for a slick finish, so I used thick compound with medium pad or wool pad as 1st step. I used cutting-polish with medium-soft pad and then a one step with soft pad.
1. Do not be afraid to push down on the plastic, with a bit of force, with your DA. It is beneficial
2. Do not be afraid that the heat will melt your plastic. This will only happen if you leave the DA on one spot for quite some time. I think moving the DA 1 inch a second is very reasonable.
3. Go over it again until all that cream/compou. nd is no longer looking like butter on the surface, but looks like it is gone!
4. If you still can see marks after polishing, go over it again... assess the marks and if they are too deep, get that sandpaper and help that DA out.
5. Careful with your MF cloths... sometimes they will mar your plastics.

[conandrum]

I have thought about it, and I think I will go straight to PPF without applying any liquid. The reason is because, in the future event where I will need to remove the film and reapply new film, I do not want to be sanding and polishing again. In that event I would want to easily just clean the lens and maybe just do 1 round with the black polishing pad and go to film quickly.
The liquid is a black box for me, I have no idea how it will behave under the film... it may degrade quickly, it may expel gases that degrade the film or create air bubbles or mess up the look of the film and in these situations I do not want to go through this ordeal again even though I am better at dealing with it now.
I could just go with the liquid and forget about applying the film... but again the liquid is an unknown to me. How long will it last? Really I do not want to touch these headlights for another decade if possible.
Your ideas?

BTW: as stated here: https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/5010562

1) get the headlamp polish kit from MrDIY - visbella brand
2) do everything as in that polish kit. However do not do the last step. Their UV applicator is not good quality as it will not last long.
3) get meguairs or 3m headlight protectant (can easily find in Shopee or buy from Acehardware)
4) use the good quality headlight protectant for the finishing step. This will ensure the headlight last for long time.

[conandrum]

Regarding the PPF application, I opened a thread here:

https://www.tintdude.com/forums/topi...omment-1462593

If anyone wants to chime in, please do.

[Opie55]

You may have, or have had, several issues here. I have done this on numerous cars. Your first issue was the grits you used. People sand headlights because the clear coat on the headlights is failing - either from many tiny stone pits, or or more often because the sun has degraded it, causing it to either clouded up or shrink, causing lots of "crazing." So the clear coat needs to be removed. 800 grit is not nearly coarse enough to do that. You need to start with no finer than 400, but I use 320. How fine you go depends on what your top coat will be. If you are spraying on an auto paint clear, then 600 is fine enough. But if using some specialty top coats for headlights, or PPF, then you need to polish like you did. I can do a headlight in an hour. I use 320, 400, 600, 800, 1200, 1500, 2000, 2500 and 3000. I just have a piece of each in a bucket of clean water. You skipped too many grits and did not sand enough because of that. It left too many scratches from prior grits, and probably some is crazing because you have not fully remove the damaged clear coat.

[conandrum]

You may be right there.
I do not think I removed the clear-coat completely, but I removed enough so that most defects are no longer visible. I think that you are probably right and I may have done this much faster if I had started with 320 and sanded the hell out of it.
However, since only the top half of the headlight looked rusted, I thought that there was no reason to go hard on the healthier part and therefore started with 800. Most headlight kits including the Visbella start from 800 grit anyway, so this was a sort of confirmation that I did not need to go lower. Plus I was afraid of eating into the plastic.
On Friday, a ppf specialist who saw the headlights told me that they wouldn't look this good unless there was clear-coat still on them.
(what do you think... Can you get a mirror finish if there is zero clear coat on the lens?)
He also said that before applying his own PPF, he would do a better polish on them. I will update the ppf thread, I posted earlier, in a few days.

In the meantime, apart from these I am quite pleased with them:
ie. very faint (round pad marks?) which are only visible when the headlights are on (see my last video @ 02:30 & 04:10)?

[conandrum]

I have added the before photos to my first post. I think the job was well done in my opinion. Took longer than expected, but next time I have to do something like this, i now know what to expect and how to do it much faster.

[conandrum]

Sorry for the late update.

6 days after the last post I went to a local PPF installer in Nicosia - shiny monkeyz https://shinymonkeyz.com/

They use Avery Dennison but not sure which one they used on mine (note to update). I have to add that the ppf film they used was much more flexible than the 3M Scotchgard I used in previous pages. The 3M I used was very tough and hard to manage.

The headlights were already close to perfect when I got there.

If you remember there were minor micro-scratches visible at certain angles and lighting conditions.

They did some quick polishing with a wool pad and a 3" rotary.

The micro-scratches were diminished slightly after this.

Then they applied the film and cut to size on the headlight.

With the film installed, the micro-scratches are not visible any more.

After that they applied some carpro ceramic coating.

The job took 1 hour and 10 minutes roughly and the total cost was 140 Euro.


A couple of mini air bubbles dissipated within the next week or so (hot weather here).

The headlights are now 100% perfect and protected at the same time.

Check out the photos.

[conandrum]

...

[Daytonawim]

That looks realy great dude !

Nice job!

[conandrum]

Thanks mate. Yes they do look excellent!