N63 or S63 cam gear failure? (Update Semi-rebuild)

[TwinSnailz]

Remember, any damage to the soft aluminum block will not seal the cover to the block correctly. Especially the water jackets. That was my only concern, having coolant dripping into oil would be a disaster. The gaskets are metal or aluminum. With very limited space, it tough to have any prying tools.
With heads still on and cam gears removed, there’s plenty of space.

[eqeezy]

Hi. New to this forum. Anyway, I am working on my n63 as we speak. My initial plan was to just replace all of the coolant and oil lines around the turbos and also replace all of my valve stem seals.
Somehow I ended up replacing the timing chains as well. Haha. It's never ending!
There is a way to remove the lower timing cover without taking heads off. It definitely helps to remove everything in front of the car (radiator, ac condenser, etc.) so you can just sit in front of it!
I removed the crankshaft seal to give me room for a 3 jaw puller to sit in. put the crank bolt back on so you're not having to thread on the actual crankshaft. When you put that 3 jaw puller, it is really easy to get that lower timing off.

Originally Posted by JohnelP

Sorry for getting back on the topic of Engine Timing case cover removal with keeping the heads on. However, I cannot quit the idea easily, as the prospect of taking the heads out puts all my enthusiasm on hold...
So, I am studying a way to get Engine Timing Case Cover out with heads on. Been last Saturday to a self service used auto parts yard to get a spare cover as most likely mine will get broken. Plus, it was a good rehearsal opportunity. In fact, I ended up with the rehearsal only, as I didn't reach the point to take it out before closing the lot, and I see they removed the car from the lot...
Anyway, I have noticed there is enough space in the head for the chain guides to be wiggled in without taking the heads out. Noticed the gasket between lower case cover to the short block is not the rubber/gasket builder type that usually glues the parts. I noticed a thin blade is able to break the gasket contact. If i slide a thin blade along the gasket, it may help.
Only catch is to handle those two lateral dowels. I think with the engine on the stand upside down to have the weight of the heads to release a bit of the load, + freezing the area around the head and cover, with upper oil pan out and with a bit of luck - given the dowels may get a play, the cover may slide out.
I have attached two pictures from ebay with the cover and the dowels.
In case the dowels become stubborn, I am thinking to slide a small cutting bit with a dremel rotary and slice the dowels, or, maybe use a larger drill to enlarge the bolt hole on the cover.
Or maybe use an oscillating tool to cut the dowels laterally through the cover ?
I sacrifice the cover; however it will be much cheaper than replacing all head gaskets, intake and exhaust bolts and rings that i need to replace if i take the heads out. Hence my plan to get the spare one in time....

PS. I was able to take 1 head out with all the surroundings, but it is a nightmare with engine in the car.

[1jwhite]

In desperate help on a 550i woth n63. Just rebuilt engine and now it wont start and has codes for cam timing. I have checked it several times and it seems fine??

[eqeezy]

Sorry to hear that. Thats no fun at all. What did you change with the rebuild?

[1jwhite]

Just rebuilt an n63 from a 2011 550i and it will not even try to start, just cranks. Has spark, but not getting fuel. I get timing codes for all 4 cams, I have removed the valve covers and verified timing with the timing tool set and it sets on the cams perfectly flat. I did replace the crankshaft is it possible that it is different? I am out of options any help appreciated.

[1jwhite]

I bought it with a spun rod bearing so bought a complete crankshaft kit with all bearings, new timing chains, guides, tensioners, valve seals and many other parts. It will only crank which is smooth and steady but never fires. It did fire once with starter fluid so it has spark but no fuel. New plugs are bone dry, injectors not firing for sure. I get cam codes for all 4 out of range. I tested the crankshaft position sensor and it seems to be working but have a new one ordered to try. i did not compare my old crank to the new one, lesson learned. Is there different ones for this engine that could have the flywheel off? Thanks everyone!

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by 1jwhite

I bought it with a spun rod bearing so bought a complete crankshaft kit with all bearings, new timing chains, guides, tensioners, valve seals and many other parts. It will only crank which is smooth and steady but never fires. It did fire once with starter fluid so it has spark but no fuel. New plugs are bone dry, injectors not firing for sure. I get cam codes for all 4 out of range. I tested the crankshaft position sensor and it seems to be working but have a new one ordered to try. i did not compare my old crank to the new one, lesson learned. Is there different ones for this engine that could have the flywheel off? Thanks everyone!

Give us some more details on how you set the timing. I am assuming you followed the instructions in ISTA and used either BMW's or an aftermarket cam timing kit when setting cam position when tightening the cam adjusters.

[1jwhite]

Thank you, i used aftermarket kit. Locked balancer to the timing cover using the to and pin and it was covering the mark on the balancer. Placed the cam gears on with red being on exhaust and black on intake. Usi g new bolts put them hand tight and rotated the gears ccw making sure they were locked and then tightened to 30nm. Removed the cam locking plates rotated the engine many times and it would end up perfect with plates sitting flat. Then removed the pretention tool and unstalled the new tentioners and pulled the pins. Then put the plates back on holding the cams and tightened the center gear bolts 90 degree. Did same for both heads and finished everything up reinstalling the engine and tried starting the car. Cranks but wont fire. Remived valve covers again and reinstalled timing kit and everything sat perfect on both heads. Im lost...

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by 1jwhite

Thank you, i used aftermarket kit. Locked balancer to the timing cover using the to and pin and it was covering the mark on the balancer. Placed the cam gears on with red being on exhaust and black on intake. Usi g new bolts put them hand tight and rotated the gears ccw making sure they were locked and then tightened to 30nm. Removed the cam locking plates rotated the engine many times and it would end up perfect with plates sitting flat. Then removed the pretention tool and unstalled the new tentioners and pulled the pins. Then put the plates back on holding the cams and tightened the center gear bolts 90 degree. Did same for both heads and finished everything up reinstalling the engine and tried starting the car. Cranks but wont fire. Remived valve covers again and reinstalled timing kit and everything sat perfect on both heads. Im lost...

Everything looks good but just a Couple of things I am sure you did but I gotta ask before we go further. Did you torque the cam bolts a further after the 30nm. I don't remember off top of head but think it's either 90 or 120 degrees (check ISTA to be sure). Also double check to make sure you didn't get the cams mixed up. Exhaust cam has the hpfp lobe on it if memory serves.

[1jwhite]

Yes did additional 90 degree on bolts, and you are correct about cams. I labeled them a b c d. Intake on bank 1 only works in its spot as it operates the vacuum pump. Im starting to think i got the wrong crank... bought a kit from a shop that repairs and sells with all new bearings. Going to try and check compression and see what that shows but afraid i will never be able to set timing if flywheel is off

[TwinSnailz]

Did you look/compare the part number on the new crank?
They only fit the n63/s63 and nothing else. Something is not hooked up ie cam sensore crank sensor etc.

[1jwhite]

No, i didnt compare the part numbers before returning the core...lesson learned. It installed perfectly and i have gone over the harness sevral times and all seems fine. Tested the cam and crank sensors today, all have 12v, and, and 5 volts. If i trick the sensors with metal they drop signal voltage to 0. Going to replace crank sensor just because but with all those codes im afraid the flywheel is not timing it correctly as far as the computer is concerned

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Sounds like your doing everything right. After you replace your crank sensor, be sure to reset all engine adaptations. Also have you monitored your fuel rail pressure? It should be around 1200-1600psi when cranking if memory serves.

[1jwhite]

Yes it is about 1700 psi. I have an autel maxi sys but not seeing anything about resetting adaptations. Might need itsa for that? It was running before rebuild... so frustrating. Could i possibly have the crank 360 degrees out when i set the cams?

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by 1jwhite

Yes it is about 1700 psi. I have an autel maxi sys but not seeing anything about resetting adaptations. Might need itsa for that? It was running before rebuild... so frustrating. Could i possibly have the crank 360 degrees out when i set the cams?

It's been a few years since I did mine so I'm a little fuzzy on th details but when you drop the alignment pin in on the crank, cylinder one is supposed to be at TDC or close to it, I would check your at TDC on cylinder 1 when your setting cam timing. I'm pretty sure it's TDC on tb compression stroke so if your 360 out then the exhaust valves will just have closed so watch them when rotating. Double check everything I said though if TDC is on compression stroke for the n63, as I mentioned Its been a few years.

[slovakE70]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

It's been a few years since I did mine so I'm a little fuzzy on th details but when you drop the alignment pin in on the crank, cylinder one is supposed to be at TDC or close to it, I would check your at TDC on cylinder 1 when your setting cam timing. I'm pretty sure it's TDC on tb compression stroke so if your 360 out then the exhaust valves will just have closed so watch them when rotating. Double check everything I said though if TDC is on compression stroke for the n63, as I mentioned Its been a few years.

No, cylinder 1 it's not on TDC when setting up timing. Infact no cylinder it's at TDC. How do I know ?
When I was replacing my valve stem seals, after taking out timing chains from cam sprockets, I could rotate each camshaft freely 360 degrees with spanner. So it means that valves were opening but not hitting any pistons thus no piston was at TDC.
I belive piston 1 it's like 150 degrees BTDC when setting up timing.

[slovakE70]

Originally Posted by 1jwhite

Yes it is about 1700 psi. I have an autel maxi sys but not seeing anything about resetting adaptations. Might need itsa for that? It was running before rebuild... so frustrating. Could i possibly have the crank 360 degrees out when i set the cams?

When you put timing tool on crankshaft pulley, was it in correct position ? There is a mark on the pulley.
Was the pulley correctly placed on crankshaft ? Was flywheel placed correctly ? Most engines have some pin or something to prevent incorrect position during instalation.
Are you sure camshafts are in correct position ? I'm not 100 % sure, but it may be possible to put them on 180 degrees out because of the way the timing tools are made. In instructions there's pictures of cam lobes positions in correct timing.

[1jwhite]

Yes, the timing tool is lined up with the mark on the balancer which is aligned correctly by the keyway on the crank. Your right the no piston is at tdc during timing allowing free rotation. I have the cams facing the way they describe with the 3 flat sides basically up and lobes pointing as they describe ensuring cam placement...

[1jwhite]

I would love to find flywheel is wrong but cant see how it could be with the dowel pin on the back of the crankshaft.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by slovakE70

No, cylinder 1 it's not on TDC when setting up timing. Infact no cylinder it's at TDC. How do I know ?
When I was replacing my valve stem seals, after taking out timing chains from cam sprockets, I could rotate each camshaft freely 360 degrees with spanner. So it means that valves were opening but not hitting any pistons thus no piston was at TDC.
I belive piston 1 it's like 150 degrees BTDC when setting up timing.

Correct, as I mentioned my memory was fuzzy but the point is you can watch the valve train actuation. At 150btdc, as you keep turning past this, watch the valves on cylinder 1, they should all be closed or the intakes are just closing as the piston begins it's compression stroke. If you have the cams out of sync then the exhaust valves will actually be open/opening as the piston nears TDC as you rotate it

[1jwhite]

Yes, the timing tool is lined up with the mark on the balancer which is aligned correctly by the keyway on the crank. Your right the no piston is at tdc during timing allowing free rotation. I have the cams facing the way they describe with the 3 flat sides basically up and lobes pointing as they describe ensuring cam placement...

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by 1jwhite

I would love to find flywheel is wrong but cant see how it could be with the dowel pin on the back of the crankshaft.

Well I would still check the valve timing in relation to piston 1 at the timing set point as I mention in the post above as you mentioned you are not sure if the crank has been modified, this will eliminate any questions. I can't see why they would change this but none the less it will eliminate that variable.

Then next you should a compression or leak down test. If those all check out then ignition/fuel is next on list.

Btw, wiring hardness for the injectors and coils that bolts to engine covers gets it's ground point from those 10mm bolts that bolts it to the valve covers. Just a heads up if you make the mistake of not using every bolt to bolt down the wiring harness because you are test firing the engine.