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      11-29-2014, 11:06 AM   #1
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The issue with non-staggered snow tires on X5M

So, after much research and countless conversations with Tire Rack, my SA, and a few indy BMW mechanics, the only common thread on the topic of "to stagger or not to stagger" is as follows:

Do NOT stagger. Keep all 4 square and do NOT use spacers to move the rears out flush with the body. The logic behind this is that if you stagger, your rear tires are hitting fresh snow that the fronts have not packed, flattened, or otherwise moved, and they're essentially plowing. Similar reasoning when it comes to using spacers to move the rears out, since they won't be perfectly aligned with the fronts.

Does everyone agree with this? I'm still not completely sold on the concept.

Thoughts?
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      11-29-2014, 12:35 PM   #2
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With AWD drive, why would it matter which axis is "plowing"? With rear wheel drive I'd somewhat agree...
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      11-29-2014, 12:42 PM   #3
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I am on my third year with the staggered stock size set up and not a bit of problem or concern.
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      11-29-2014, 06:22 PM   #4
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i have Motivo's on my X5M and i'm thinking about a winter setup for next year.

However my Jeep runs the EXACT wheel and tire sizes as my X5M and i got a set of 20x9 reps with 275 Square snow tires. I went this route so i can rotate the wheels/tires to get the most life out of them.

If down the road i decide to do something like this with my X5M i'll likely go the same route as there's an advantage in the snow to having a narrower tire. So i see no reason to pay extra money for wider rears when there's no advantage to it other than looks.
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      11-30-2014, 10:32 PM   #5
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I have square 255x19 snow tires without spacers on the X5M and X5 35i; works great in the snow.
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      12-01-2014, 12:44 AM   #6
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If you move your rear wheels out 10 mm I would not call this plowing if not tracking perfectly. You plow more when you make a slight turn. Get a good winter set-up, square or stagger to your own preference and practice your winter driving. That is what I believe will make the real difference.
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      12-01-2014, 09:11 AM   #7
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I've posted a similar thread on this. I have used 255/55/18 square setup without spacers, a 255/50/19 setup with spacers, and now a 275/40/20 front and 315/35/20 rear setup with Pirelli Ice/Snow.

By far the best performing in my opinion is the 20" staggered setup. We have driven in over 12" of unplowed snow, heavy slush, and also slick bare roads.

Any set of winters is going to be superior to summer or all seasons. It really comes down to what you want it to look like and how concerned you are with bad roads/potholes for tire damage and the availability of a replacement tire.
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      12-04-2014, 11:14 PM   #8
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Any X5 w/ the fender flares looks hideous w/ a square setup.

That said, BMW should be ashamed of themselves selling MSports and Ms w/ summer tires anywhere that sees snow. They should come w/ all seasons unless you're buying in Miami, Phoenix or LA.

/thread
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      12-16-2014, 06:58 PM   #9
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I have all the same tires for my snow setup with spacers on all four to widen my stance a lil, since I had wider wheels front and rear stagger. I have not experience any issue so far with my set up. I wouldn't see an issue with having stagger snow tires either. I would think you would have more traction. I just didn'e want to spend the money on 20inch stagger tires haha.
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      12-17-2014, 09:32 AM   #10
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a lot depends on where you test it .. unpacked snow, in a blizzard on the highway, Ice... If you wanna be safe do what they're telling you, go non-staggered all around, hell yeah it looks ugly, you're not being shot for magazine cover
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      12-17-2014, 09:38 AM   #11
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If you want the best possible winter setup, a square narrow setup will in theory be the best thing you can do. The question is just how much difference will there be in overall traction/performance with a staggered vs square setup. If you have a staggered winter setup, you will be much better off than any other all season setup out there.

The other question is what are the actual conditions you drive in. Out of the 120-150 winter tire days, how many do you actually experience snow/snowpack/slush covered streets. In the midwest, I will say maybe 20-25 on average. To me that leaves a whole lot of days where you will just be on cold or wet conditions. For me I have 19" square set but that was because I found a great deal on a set of 211 takoff back in 2007. On my M3, I have a staggered setup which may not be the 100% best but I would rather have the staggered setup for the 80% of the time it is just cold vs the 20% of the time I have snow and slush conditions.

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      12-17-2014, 10:10 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007_e350 View Post
a lot depends on where you test it .. unpacked snow, in a blizzard on the highway, Ice... If you wanna be safe do what they're telling you, go non-staggered all around, hell yeah it looks ugly, you're not being shot for magazine cover
Agreed. I went 19" non-staggered. Ugly, but likely most effective.
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      12-17-2014, 11:09 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wowdao View Post
I have all the same tires for my snow setup with spacers on all four to widen my stance a lil, since I had wider wheels front and rear stagger. I have not experience any issue so far with my set up. I wouldn't see an issue with having stagger snow tires either. I would think you would have more traction. I just didn'e want to spend the money on 20inch stagger tires haha.
Question: What size spacers are you using on the front? ...and the rear? ...and which ones, ECS?, H&R?

Sorry for the inquisition...I'm thinking about using spacers and I'm a newbie to the concept, so I'm in info gathering mode.

Thanks in advance
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      12-17-2014, 01:47 PM   #14
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While the spacers make the winter tires fill out and the look is good, it really contributes to road spray on the side of the car. Winter driving usually involves driving on wet roads, including a salt slurry in the areas that use salt to help clear the roads. This is my second winter season with the 298 style 19 inch wheels and depending on how I feel next year I may take the spacers off when I put the winter tires back on. We will see.
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      12-17-2014, 06:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X5MFan
While the spacers make the winter tires fill out and the look is good, it really contributes to road spray on the side of the car. Winter driving usually involves driving on wet roads, including a salt slurry in the areas that use salt to help clear the roads. This is my second winter season with the 298 style 19 inch wheels and depending on how I feel next year I may take the spacers off when I put the winter tires back on. We will see.
I was going to put on spacers but like you mentioned. More protection for the paint by having the wheels a bit in.
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      12-17-2014, 11:39 PM   #16
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I refused to make my car look ugly in the winter so I opted with the Pirelli Scorpion Ice and Snow tires in OEM size. I run them on my stock 299m wheels and this setup has been beast for the last 3 winters. An M tuned X-drive + 640hp + performance snows = confidence inspiring fun even with snow on the ground

If your fenders and arches etc aren't protected I could see how running an aggressive setup could knick the paint because of the notorious E70 m/msport chipping issues. Otherwise I haven't had a single issue with my setup and would recommend it to anyone wanting to keep an oem look in the winter
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      12-18-2014, 12:36 AM   #17
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Hi,

This will be my first winter with the M, and after talking to local JEEP SRT-8 guys here I decided to go with these A/S tires for the winter, per their recommendation:

Front -
Delinte D8 Desert Storm 275/40R20
Rear -
DELINTE D8 A/S 4PLY BW - P315/35R20

Since we don't get much snow in MD, I am hoping the staggered setup with these A/S tires will help me get through the winter months.
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      12-18-2014, 10:32 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X5Mer View Post
Question: What size spacers are you using on the front? ...and the rear? ...and which ones, ECS?, H&R?

Sorry for the inquisition...I'm thinking about using spacers and I'm a newbie to the concept, so I'm in info gathering mode.

Thanks in advance
I went with 15mm spacers all around. Found them on ebay with 40mm extended lug bolts. I also did a conversion on the spacer. center bore of 74.1 to 72.6. Needed to fit old 2002-2004 x5 wheels.
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      12-18-2014, 10:52 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wowdao View Post
I went with 15mm spacers all around. Found them on ebay with 40mm extended lug bolts. I also did a conversion on the spacer. center bore of 74.1 to 72.6. Needed to fit old 2002-2004 x5 wheels.
Thanks for the info.

So I pulled the trigger on 20mm spacers for the rear. The fronts seem ok as is. I still may put 10 or 12mm spacers on the front once I see the final product.
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      12-18-2014, 09:36 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exotich View Post
Hi,

This will be my first winter with the M, and after talking to local JEEP SRT-8 guys here I decided to go with these A/S tires for the winter, per their recommendation:

Front -
Delinte D8 Desert Storm 275/40R20
Rear -
DELINTE D8 A/S 4PLY BW - P315/35R20

Since we don't get much snow in MD, I am hoping the staggered setup with these A/S tires will help me get through the winter months.
Have you considered the negatives of running an A/S year round. Or is that a trade-off you are willing to accept in order to run one tire?
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      12-18-2014, 11:03 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmomo313 View Post
Have you considered the negatives of running an A/S year round. Or is that a trade-off you are willing to accept in order to run one tire?
Hi, no I am just running these for the winter season. My Bridgestone Run Flats are brand new. And as soon as spring hits, I will put them back on.
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      12-18-2014, 11:39 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exotich View Post
Hi, no I am just running these for the winter season. My Bridgestone Run Flats are brand new. And as soon as spring hits, I will put them back on.
Good stuff!! Dedicated setups are the way to go

oh btw your fx is pretty sweet man, just saw the thread. looking forward to what you'll do with the new beast!
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