AFR & boost levels, pre & post tune - questions

[m5james]

I'm curious about hooking up an actual boost gauge. My Torque app says I'm getting 17.4psi pre and post tune, but my tuner MorePower (morepower.de) says I should be getting beyond 20psi now. It feels faster, but the boost pressure hasn't changed, just the AFR from before and after at WOT.

[xpl0sive]

well your AFR is definitely going to be different at 3382RPM compared to 6237RPM. I don't really trust those apps though, I don't think the stock AFR measurement is very accurate. You would need a wideband gauge with a wideband O2 sensor to get accurate AFR. I did read somewhere that the stock BMW O2 sensors are wideband, but I'm not so sure.
As far as boost pressure goes, you could simply be picking up the wrong parameter with the app. I think the way the tuners make these tunes work, is they trick the car into thinking it's only making 17psi, but really they keep the wastegate closed for longer so boost goes up. Otherwise the car would throw an "overboost" code.

[m5 guy]

Boost reading on these cars are a little tricky since you can't just tap your vacuum lines. Currently there are two can based gauges; P3cars and Awron. Awron is easily the better of the two imo, but it requires sacrificing your center AC and involves wiring. However it offers a much greater variety of monitoring since it wires in directly to the can wires.

The P3cars one takes up half of one of your window side AC vents and takes its data from plugging in the obd port. I currently have this one and seems to work well enough. I do want to make it analog, but I think that requires a wire tapping of the tmap sensor. I learned the hard way that running a vacuum line to the engine bay and t tapping into the vacuum system does nothing.

Now Dinan makes a fitting that allows for adding a vacuum line to the sensor, but it is supposedly only for a N63 motor, and not a S63. It seems like it would still work, but I haven't bit the built yet. If the Dinan fitting works for our S63 motors that also means any type of analog boost gauge will work. I'm also sure that one could tap into one of the pipes, but that is not something I'm really interested in doing.

The Awron gauge is still tempting even with the center AC delete. I'll probably end up getting it, but trying to hold out lol...

Whether my P3cars gauge is 100% accurate I can't say since its digital and the number changes depending on what car mode you choose. However it provided me with an excellent delta range so that proves to me the boost difference is accurate. I was getting max 15.3 psi on the gauge when stock and now with the tune on I'm hitting a max of 22.3. Throughout the whole rev range it is a consistent bump of 7 psi compared to what it was reading while stock.

The Awron would not have this problem since it does not have a model of car selection and taps right into the can wiring. It's the more real digital gauge if that makes sense.

[m5james]

Originally Posted by xpl0sive

well your AFR is definitely going to be different at 3382RPM compared to 6237RPM. I don't really trust those apps though, I don't think the stock AFR measurement is very accurate. You would need a wideband gauge with a wideband O2 sensor to get accurate AFR. I did read somewhere that the stock BMW O2 sensors are wideband, but I'm not so sure.
As far as boost pressure goes, you could simply be picking up the wrong parameter with the app. I think the way the tuners make these tunes work, is they trick the car into thinking it's only making 17psi, but really they keep the wastegate closed for longer so boost goes up. Otherwise the car would throw an "overboost" code.

I realize the RPM to AFR differences, but it only dips into the 11's when full WOT (when you can feel that little switch click under the pedal), otherwise regardless of RPM, it'll stay into the 14's if I'm not 100% WOT.

While doing my research of replacement Bosch injectors, these are in fact real deal wristbands. I did play with the settings on the app, put another gauge onto the app, but it's still not reading correctly...the manifold pressure still only goes up to 17.4 while the vacuum/boost I've gotten to top out at 15.9psi while laying around at lunch yesterday. I've gotten onto the Torque forums to see if there are BMW specific PID's, others mentioned them but I haven't gotten a reply yet as to which ones I need to use.

[m5james]

Originally Posted by m3 guy

Boost reading on these cars are a little tricky since you can't just tap your vacuum lines. Currently there are two can based gauges; P3cars and Awron. Awron is easily the better of the two imo, but it requires sacrificing your center AC and involves wiring. However it offers a much greater variety of monitoring since it wires in directly to the can wires.

The P3cars one takes up half of one of your window side AC vents and takes its data from plugging in the obd port. I currently have this one and seems to work well enough. I do want to make it analog, but I think that requires a wire tapping of the tmap sensor. I learned the hard way that running a vacuum line to the engine bay and t tapping into the vacuum system does nothing.

Now Dinan makes a fitting that allows for adding a vacuum line to the sensor, but it is supposedly only for a N63 motor, and not a S63. It seems like it would still work, but I haven't bit the built yet. If the Dinan fitting works for our S63 motors that also means any type of analog boost gauge will work. I'm also sure that one could tap into one of the pipes, but that is not something I'm really interested in doing.

The Awron gauge is still tempting even with the center AC delete. I'll probably end up getting it, but trying to hold out lol...

Whether my P3cars gauge is 100% accurate I can't say since its digital and the number changes depending on what car mode you choose. However it provided me with an excellent delta range so that proves to me the boost difference is accurate. I was getting max 15.3 psi on the gauge when stock and now with the tune on I'm hitting a max of 22.3. Throughout the whole rev range it is a consistent bump of 7 psi compared to what it was reading while stock.

The Awron would not have this problem since it does not have a model of car selection and taps right into the can wiring. It's the more real digital gauge if that makes sense.

I trust their readings and I believe the app is accurate because it's reading from OBDII just like the Awron and P3csrs devices...just because they cost $500-$1200 doesn't mean they're better, that just means they're custom made with a markup, but they're pulling information from the same location. Maybe the one pulling from CAN is going to provide better signal, but I'm still figuring things out. I believe my problem is app settings, but I'm still playing.

Sucks that we can't tap for an analog gauge, that'd really help solve my problems and kill curiosity about accuracy before bugging my tuner more.

[xpl0sive]

Originally Posted by m5james

I realize the RPM to AFR differences, but it only dips into the 11's when full WOT (when you can feel that little switch click under the pedal), otherwise regardless of RPM, it'll stay into the 14's if I'm not 100% WOT.

While doing my research of replacement Bosch injectors, these are in fact real deal wristbands. I did play with the settings on the app, put another gauge onto the app, but it's still not reading correctly...the manifold pressure still only goes up to 17.4 while the vacuum/boost I've gotten to top out at 15.9psi while laying around at lunch yesterday. I've gotten onto the Torque forums to see if there are BMW specific PID's, others mentioned them but I haven't gotten a reply yet as to which ones I need to use.

That's because there are two maps being used, a WOT map and a not WOT map. The tune you have may only modify the WOT map, I'm not sure

[m5james]

So I flashed back to stock to get pre-tune numbers. First two runs went fine, third run have the random reduced power warning I can't seem to resolve, regardless of tune. I showed this to my tuner, he's determined to think I have a boost leak, so I'll be replacing plugs (just to be safe) and smoke testing it this weekend before in go back for post tune numbers.

[m5james]

Regardless of tunes, I still get this warning. INPA gives me a code of 310B but I've had zero luck finding it online. I smoke tested the engine, found no leaks, but oddly enough an oil leak on the PCV line that sits on the bridge above the turbos...I'm going to either replace it with another stock piece (they're a known 30k wear item from other threads I've been on) or replace it with a silicone one. I'm going to smoke test even more locations, replace the plugs and hope for the best before going back for another dyno run.

[jrmccain]

Originally Posted by m5james

Regardless of tunes, I still get this warning. INPA gives me a code of 310B but I've had zero luck finding it online. I smoke tested the engine, found no leaks, but oddly enough an oil leak on the PCV line that sits on the bridge above the turbos...I'm going to either replace it with another stock piece (they're a known 30k wear item from other threads I've been on) or replace it with a silicone one. I'm going to smoke test even more locations, replace the plugs and hope for the best before going back for another dyno run.

I think this could very well be your issue. As noted by mrpcar on another post this leak can cause significant issues. Let us know what the outcome is. Hopefully it's as simple as that.

[m5james]

I'm also getting codes of 2ABC and 2ABE, so at this point my tuner has suggested I replace all vacuum lines and then start looking into the tmap sensors on the intercoolers themselves...he's really driving home the idea that I've got a boost/vacuum leak. Anyone in here know German?

[OllieX5M]

Originally Posted by m5james

I'm also getting codes of 2ABC and 2ABE, so at this point my tuner has suggested I replace all vacuum lines and then start looking into the tmap sensors on the intercoolers themselves...he's really driving home the idea that I've got a boost/vacuum leak. Anyone in here know German?

M5james,

Since removing my velos tune all has been good until recently I’ve been getting the 2ABC code for the boost pressure sensor, electric. Hence I just replace those, all vacuum lines, all 4 Tmaps, air filter ducts, sparks plugs and coils all brand new. What did you do to solve this issue? I’m about to go to the dealership for a diagnosis and see wtf is up. What else could cause this? I also removed the vacuum T that went to the rear muffler that’s all gone and sealed. I’m getting sick of this truck even though I love it it’s really tough to justify keeping it if I can’t get full use of it. Toyota Land Cruiser would be the replacement a bulletproof SUV for the wife. Either way let me know I would love to solve this and drive the car without worring of a light coming on.

[Dawgz]

Originally Posted by OllieX5M

M5james,

Since removing my velos tune all has been good until recently I’ve been getting the 2ABC code for the boost pressure sensor, electric. Hence I just replace those, all vacuum lines, all 4 Tmaps, air filter ducts, sparks plugs and coils all brand new. What did you do to solve this issue? I’m about to go to the dealership for a diagnosis and see wtf is up. What else could cause this? I also removed the vacuum T that went to the rear muffler that’s all gone and sealed. I’m getting sick of this truck even though I love it it’s really tough to justify keeping it if I can’t get full use of it. Toyota Land Cruiser would be the replacement a bulletproof SUV for the wife. Either way let me know I would love to solve this and drive the car without worring of a light coming on.

Looked up that code. Found this:

Turbocharger/Supercharger Boost Sensor 'A' Circuit Low.

I would assume that's the sensor on the intercooler.

Btw learned from a reputable tuner that the hose that goes to the muffler makes a pit stop to the DME first. May not want to disconnect it under the hood but near the muffler.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by OllieX5M

M5james,

Since removing my velos tune all has been good until recently I’ve been getting the 2ABC code for the boost pressure sensor, electric. Hence I just replace those, all vacuum lines, all 4 Tmaps, air filter ducts, sparks plugs and coils all brand new. What did you do to solve this issue? I’m about to go to the dealership for a diagnosis and see wtf is up. What else could cause this? I also removed the vacuum T that went to the rear muffler that’s all gone and sealed. I’m getting sick of this truck even though I love it it’s really tough to justify keeping it if I can’t get full use of it. Toyota Land Cruiser would be the replacement a bulletproof SUV for the wife. Either way let me know I would love to solve this and drive the car without worring of a light coming on.

When your hunting for vacuum/boost leaks, an often overlooked item are the valves/lines that run from your intake to your gastank. The N63 has one, the S63 in the M has two, they are hard to see and these lines connect to the lower intake under the intercooler and then to the gastank canister purge solenoids. IF the solenoids go bad or lines start leaking, it will cause havoc with boost codes. Probably not your issue as it sounds more electrical but something to consider.

BTW, I read this code can pop up if you have a bad OB2 wireless/wired connector on your OB2 port. Are you running anything on it?

[OllieX5M]

Hey buddy sorry for the long delay. Nothing is in my obd port beside Carly to check for codes/clear. Anything else that could be the cause?

[OllieX5M]

Just got the car back and my mechanic did a full inspection of the car. Pressure tested to check for leaks none. Pressure tested the turbos both seal shut and no leaks and hold. He checked voltage at both intake pressure sensors and they checked out at 5v each. What he did find was that the catalytic converters looked clogged especially bank 1. He mentioned this is most likely the cause of the 2ABC code because the DME/boost pressure sensors are getting to far apart boost readings which is what causes the limp mode. I did have a misfiring issue in the pst that has since been fixed with index 12 injectors, but all those misfires I had clogged the cats. The airflow is not good enough in bank 1 to match the flow of bank 2 which is popping the light. Man these cats aren’t cheap buying new anyone have a good used set for sale on here?

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by OllieX5M

Just got the car back and my mechanic did a full inspection of the car. Pressure tested to check for leaks none. Pressure tested the turbos both seal shut and no leaks and hold. He checked voltage at both intake pressure sensors and they checked out at 5v each. What he did find was that the catalytic converters looked clogged especially bank 1. He mentioned this is most likely the cause of the 2ABC code because the DME/boost pressure sensors are getting to far apart boost readings which is what causes the limp mode. I did have a misfiring issue in the pst that has since been fixed with index 12 injectors, but all those misfires I had clogged the cats. The airflow is not good enough in bank 1 to match the flow of bank 2 which is popping the light. Man these cats aren’t cheap buying new anyone have a good used set for sale on here?

I responded in your other thread but to add to that the clogged cats is interesting. Mine were starting to get clogged but that was due to excessive oil burning and octane booster use. Bad injectors should not clog cats so quickly. Is your engine burning alot of oil? Mine was burning a quart ever 500-700 miles or so before I did the valve stem seals. Also as I mentioned in other thread, might want to go with downpipes instead if you are ok with the increased cold start noise and smell when your windows are down

[OllieX5M]

I would say it’s pretty steady maybe 1 liter every 1400-1600 miles. I used 2.5 liters in this past oil interval of 5k miles which isn’t too bad.

[OllieX5M]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

I responded in your other thread but to add to that the clogged cats is interesting. Mine were starting to get clogged but that was due to excessive oil burning and octane booster use. Bad injectors should not clog cats so quickly. Is your engine burning alot of oil? Mine was burning a quart ever 500-700 miles or so before I did the valve stem seals. Also as I mentioned in other thread, might want to go with downpipes instead if you are ok with the increased cold start noise and smell when your windows are down

I’m most likely buying the Active Autowerke HFC downpipes as I need to be able to pass inspection up here in Massachusetts. I’m not trying to go all out on HO and torque to be honest. I just want the car running right and not throw a code whenever I put the pedal to the floor.