▀▄ eas | S65 Rod Bearing Replacement: An ongoing "Journal"

[Beemdog]

Originally Posted by quicktwinturbo

What would be typical sign or symptoms of bad rod bearing in early phase?

Your warranty has just expired.

[LSx]

Originally Posted by quicktwinturbo

What would be typical sign or symptoms of bad rod bearing in early phase?

Regular oil analysis will show increasing levels of lead & tin, as the bearings wear more there will start to be increasing copper levels.

But since this appears to be a design flaw and a problem which results in bearing wear over many thousands of miles rather than a sudden failure over a short period of time, it's likely that oil analysis will show elevated lead and tin levels pretty early in the car's life. It's only when you start to see copper that you'll know the top layer of the bearing has been worn through.

As the bearings wear and oil clearance increases you might see a drop in oil pressure at idle where the oil pump isn't as efficient, but that would take a lot of wear to get to that point. My guess would be that there are not any symptoms, but that's better answered by people who have had excessively worn bearings replaced, I'm just making a blanket statement that applies to most engines with early stage bearing failure.

[tom @ eas]

Saw this article pop up yesterday:

BMW Replaces Castrol with Shell as Official Motor Oil

After many years of BMW using Castrol (more often a specific and hard to find Castrol Synthetic) as their official oil, a change is being made. Internal memos went out last month to BMW service centers announcing the change but until now there hasn’t been any confirmation from either party. Our first thought – what about all those lovingly cared for BMWs that have been diligently using Castrol Synthetic. For years we’ve heard from experts it’s best to maintain consistent oil type and brand as cars rack up miles. Is BMW going to educate us that this isn’t an issue? Or will we have to go elsewhere in search of consistency? Hopefully we’ll know soon.

Official News: Shell today announces that it has been chosen by BMW AG as its only recommended global supplier for aftermarket engine oils for the following BMW brands: BMW, BMW i, BMW M, MINI and BMW Motorrad.

Official From the start of 2015, premium engine oils manufactured by Shell will be available to customers at BMW’s network of more than 3,500 dealers, in more than 140 countries, including China, Germany, Russia, South Africa, South Korea, the UK and the USA.

The collaboration means that Shell will produce and supply BMW’s branded engine oils. These products will meet the latest BMW engine specifications and are underpinned by Shell’s PurePlus Technology. Shell PurePlus Technology is a breakthrough in how engine oils are formulated. It is a patented gas-to-liquid (GTL) process, developed over 40 years of research, which converts natural gas into a crystal-clear base oil.

Base oil, usually made from crude oil, is the main component of finished oils and plays a vital role in the quality of the finished engine oil. The base oil is produced at the Pearl GTL plant in Qatar, a partnership between Shell and Qatar Petroleum. From 2015, BMW service customers can benefit from the integration of Shell’s global lubricants supply chain with its gas value chain in Qatar.

Mark Gainsborough, Executive Vice President for Shell Lubricants, said: “We are honoured to become the BMW’s recommended supplier of aftermarket engine oil. We look forward to jointly supplying, distributing and marketing these oils, as of start 2015. ”

“This is recognition of the benefits of Shell’s engine oil expertise and cutting-edge technology by one of the world’s leading premium manufacturer of automobiles and motorcycles. This includes an acknowledgment of the value of our most recent innovation: Shell PurePlus Technology for premium engine oils.”

“This deal brings two leading brands together to offer the best of performance and technology to BMW service customers. Both companies have a very strong commitment to premium products and services, giving us much in common.”

Source: BMW Replaces Castrol with Shell as Official Motor Oil

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Saw this article pop up yesterday:

BMW Replaces Castrol with Shell as Official Motor Oil

After many years of BMW using Castrol (more often a specific and hard to find Castrol Synthetic) as their official oil, a change is being made. Internal memos went out last month to BMW service centers announcing the change but until now there hasn’t been any confirmation from either party. Our first thought – what about all those lovingly cared for BMWs that have been diligently using Castrol Synthetic. For years we’ve heard from experts it’s best to maintain consistent oil type and brand as cars rack up miles. Is BMW going to educate us that this isn’t an issue? Or will we have to go elsewhere in search of consistency? Hopefully we’ll know soon.

Official News: Shell today announces that it has been chosen by BMW AG as its only recommended global supplier for aftermarket engine oils for the following BMW brands: BMW, BMW i, BMW M, MINI and BMW Motorrad.

Official From the start of 2015, premium engine oils manufactured by Shell will be available to customers at BMW’s network of more than 3,500 dealers, in more than 140 countries, including China, Germany, Russia, South Africa, South Korea, the UK and the USA.

The collaboration means that Shell will produce and supply BMW’s branded engine oils. These products will meet the latest BMW engine specifications and are underpinned by Shell’s PurePlus Technology. Shell PurePlus Technology is a breakthrough in how engine oils are formulated. It is a patented gas-to-liquid (GTL) process, developed over 40 years of research, which converts natural gas into a crystal-clear base oil.

Base oil, usually made from crude oil, is the main component of finished oils and plays a vital role in the quality of the finished engine oil. The base oil is produced at the Pearl GTL plant in Qatar, a partnership between Shell and Qatar Petroleum. From 2015, BMW service customers can benefit from the integration of Shell’s global lubricants supply chain with its gas value chain in Qatar.

Mark Gainsborough, Executive Vice President for Shell Lubricants, said: “We are honoured to become the BMW’s recommended supplier of aftermarket engine oil. We look forward to jointly supplying, distributing and marketing these oils, as of start 2015. ”

“This is recognition of the benefits of Shell’s engine oil expertise and cutting-edge technology by one of the world’s leading premium manufacturer of automobiles and motorcycles. This includes an acknowledgment of the value of our most recent innovation: Shell PurePlus Technology for premium engine oils.”

“This deal brings two leading brands together to offer the best of performance and technology to BMW service customers. Both companies have a very strong commitment to premium products and services, giving us much in common.”

Source: BMW Replaces Castrol with Shell as Official Motor Oil

Do you know maybe also the specs of the Shell PurePlus oil for the S65 engine ?

[LSx]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Do you know maybe also the specs of the Shell PurePlus oil for the S65 engine ?

This is the only PurePlus oil in 10W-60 that I see right now.

http://www.epc.shell.com/docs/GPCDOC...)_(en)_TDS.pdf

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by LSx

This is the only PurePlus oil in 10W-60 that I see right now.

http://www.epc.shell.com/docs/GPCDOC...)_(en)_TDS.pdf

Indeed , THX !

[aussiem3]

This adds another level of confusion and complexity to an already problem child. The interesting part is whether BMW will recommend Shell for cars that are already running Castrol, or is Shell effective from a particular MY going forward?

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by quicktwinturbo

What would be typical sign or symptoms of bad rod bearing in early phase?

Very slight knocking under tip in of throttle especially under load (i.e. a higher gear @ lower RPM being lugged).

[pbonsalb]

The switch to shell oil shows that there is no one special oil that must be used.

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

The switch to shell oil shows that there is no one special oil that must be used.

You mean engines aren't built around the oil... say it isn't so

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

The switch to shell oil shows that there is no one special oil that must be used.

Well I'm sure they'll still spec 10-60 so that is in and of iteself a unique oil.

[Beemdog]

I can't picture Shell developing an oil for engines which are no longer in production as in our case with the S65. So if the dealers must use Shell oil, it will be whatever they (at Shell) already make that comes closest to meeting the requirements.

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by Beemdog

I can't picture Shell developing an oil for engines which are no longer in production as in our case with the S65. So if the dealers must use Shell oil, it will be whatever they (at Shell) already make that comes closest to meeting the requirements.

Shell already makes a 10w60

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by s85e90

Well I'm sure they'll still spec 10-60 so that is in and of iteself a unique oil.

Sure, redline, castrol, motul, liquimoly, shell make it.

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Sure, redline, castrol, motul, liquimoly, shell make it.

Oh yeah no doubt other companies do make it, but it's not something you find at the local auto parts store. Three of those companies are also pretty Niche markets too.

[Beemdog]

Originally Posted by s85e90

Shell already makes a 10w60

Yes, but there is more to an oil than it's muti-Vis rating.

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by Beemdog

Yes, but there is more to an oil than it's muti-Vis rating.

Yes, it's called the $$$ spent to BMW AG for the contract that will now stipulate that BMW recommends Shell 10-60 for the remaining NA m cars. It's not rocket science, it's dollars to cents. It's a business relationship. Why do people read so much further into it.

Here's what I do: Car under warranty? If yes, stick with what the dealer recommends as heaven forbid something fails BMW can't say, "Well you didn't follow our recommend service and fluid changes". I probaly have a combined 80-100k on m engines running 10w60 in varying climates w/ no issues at all.

[LSx]

Originally Posted by s85e90

Yes, it's called the $$$ spent to BMW AG for the contract that will now stipulate that BMW recommends Shell 10-60 for the remaining NA m cars. It's not rocket science, it's dollars to cents. It's a business relationship. Why do people read so much further into it.

Here's what I do: Car under warranty? If yes, stick with what the dealer recommends as heaven forbid something fails BMW can't say, "Well you didn't follow our recommend service and fluid changes". I probaly have a combined 80-100k on m engines running 10w60 in varying climates w/ no issues at all.

Very true, and I do agree with 99% of this...but there can be drastic differences between oils with the same viscosity ratings due to the additive package used.

Because of the variance of additives used in type and concentration in order to meet minimum wear requirements and emissions standards, many of the OEM spec'd oils these days are not as good at preventing wear as they had been in the past. This is compensated for by the manufacturers by adding teflon coatings to piston skirts to discourage scuffing, by using rollers for cam followers instead of sliding pads, and lightening valve train components so less spring pressure is needed.

Many of these additives are sacrificial, heat and pressure create a reaction that protects metal components such as valve tips from spalling damage due to point loading, as the additives are consumed in normal operation of the motor there is eventually not enough left in the oil after 10k (for example) to continue to provide protection that a higher grade oil might provide for another 5k or more.

How much of the additives such as moly and ZDDP that are actually needed in the oil is dependant upon how much is consumed over the manufacturers desired oil change interval. They will shoot for the minimum required because those anti-wear additives are detrimental to the life of catalytic converters.

That point aside, this has very little to do with the bearing wear that this thread is about.

[EAZ7]

Anyone from the UK had these Replaced?

From what i read you need WPC Treated Rod Bearings & ARP Rod Bolts?

Any idea on the price of the Bearings?

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by EAZ7

Anyone from the UK had these Replaced?

From what i read you need WPC Treated Rod Bearings & ARP Rod Bolts?

Any idea on the price of the Bearings?

Here one guy in the UK: http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=112679

We seem to have quite a bit less bearing issues or at least replacement in Europe. The debate why is ongoing with interesting thoughts on different area temp, different gas oct etc...

Cheers

[EAZ7]

thanks for the heads up Helms!

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by EAZ7

thanks for the heads up Helms!

Welcome mate. Your not on M3Cutters. ?