Better quality seals/ plastics

[passthetongs]

I am fed up with how trash the rubber seals and gaskets are in these cars. How hard is it to use the same material in seals that are in Honda’s and Toyota’s; something that will last over 60k miles before leaking. It’s ridiculous how much plastic is used in crucial components as well. I’ve had to replace a water pump every 1.5 years. Does bmw do this so their service dept has a steady stream of revenue? I am fed up and will no longer buy another bmw until they can solve these blatantly obvious but seemingly simple problems.

[X5 MAN]

Originally Posted by passthetongs

I am fed up with how trash the rubber seals and gaskets are in these cars. How hard is it to use the same material in seals that are in Honda’s and Toyota’s; something that will last over 60k miles before leaking. It’s ridiculous how much plastic is used in crucial components as well. I’ve had to replace a water pump every 1.5 years. Does bmw do this so their service dept has a steady stream of revenue? I am fed up and will no longer buy another bmw until they can solve these blatantly obvious but seemingly simple problems.

I6 engines with turbo produce a lot of heat unlike Toyota and Honda non turbos.

Also if you drive the X5 for groceries and local soccer mom duties, the engines gets more stressed and heated., which is not the case with low powered 4 cylinder Japanese cars.

[Letsgo]

You have to keep in mind that the engineering mentalities are completely different as well. Toyota in particular keeps refining old technology to "perfection". Look at the engines in their current line ups, some are based on 20 year old architecture. They don't do anything spectacular, but they are precise and built to last.

The Germans are in constant competition with each other and R&D and engineering advancement have always been put on a pedestal. You want the latest and greatest, then be prepared to be a beta user.

Have worked with all the big OEMs, European/American/Japanese, mindsets at the corporate level are completely different and are reflective of the end product.

[Thecastle]

It used to be true that some Japanese manufacturers made more reliable drive-trains, but I think even their days are passing. The move to small displacement, high boost engines that run as hot as possible to reduce emissions and increase fuel economy have come to the Japanese cars as well. The Germans were just ahead of the curve. Only time will tell if these new Japanese cars are just as problematic. One thing is certain Honda has had a ton of transmission and infotainment issues. Toyota hasn't built any high temp engines until just recently the Camry being the 1st with a 105c operating temp engine. I suspect everyone's reliability is falling in the quest for fuel efficiency and keeping cost low. Maybe the germans have gotten better as they've had about 15 years of experience with small displacement, high temp. boosted engines. I can say my 2016 550i with 70K miles has been trouble free.

I suspect that cars in general peaked in reliability around the late 90s-2003. The bubble era cars. This was also the peak of american "reliability" when we had pre-emissions diesels in trucks that have latest 600-700K miles. We just don't see that anymore.

Just an anecdote, but Toyota has been using BMW engines in their cars in increasing numbers as BMW meets Toyota reliability standards.....

[X5 MAN]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

It used to be true that some Japanese manufacturers made more reliable drive-trains, but I think even their days are passing. The move to small displacement, high boost engines that run as hot as possible to reduce emissions and increase fuel economy have come to the Japanese cars as well. The Germans were just ahead of the curve. Only time will tell if these new Japanese cars are just as problematic. One thing is certain Honda has had a ton of transmission and infotainment issues. Toyota hasn't built any high temp engines until just recently the Camry being the 1st with a 105c operating temp engine. I suspect everyone's reliability is falling in the quest for fuel efficiency and keeping cost low. Maybe the germans have gotten better as they've had about 15 years of experience with small displacement, high temp. boosted engines. I can say my 2016 550i with 70K miles has been trouble free.

I suspect that cars in general peaked in reliability around the late 90s-2003. The bubble era cars. This was also the peak of american "reliability" when we had pre-emissions diesels in trucks that have latest 600-700K miles. We just don't see that anymore.

Just an anecdote, but Toyota has been using BMW engines in their cars in increasing numbers as BMW meets Toyota reliability standards.....

The race to conform to CAFE standards has resulted cars becoming more and more neutered, and homogenized across the brands.

2.0L, 4 cyl Turbo has become the bread and butter of every manufacturer and most cars and SUV have that engine with some minor tweaks.

Volvo even uses it in all its SUVs from small X40 to largest x90 !!

Toyota and BMW tie up is of mutual benefit as Toyota gets great engines and BMW gets Hybrid and Electric car technology from Toyota.

[Thecastle]

P.S. Honda's Acura line is now considered one of the least reliable cars out there, yes even lower than BMW. I think all cars are becoming less reliable. Part of it is also cost cutting in the mechanical bits in order to be able to put more money into infotainment systems that seem so important to folks. BMW and everyone else have been cutting costs on parts customers don't see in order to add more infotainment features without raising prices significantly. Its one of the factors to me as to why newer cars often don't drive as well.

Also people driving preferences have changed. People are generally driving slower than ever keeping their distracted faces glued to their cell phones and infotainment. So a car that handles well at high speeds isn't much of an interest anymore as no one really drives fast anymore. They lack the concentration. 20 years ago I used to drive in groups of cars at 125mph+ down the interstate all the time. Now you rarely see folks doing more than 75 in the left lane on brain dead. with occasional bursts to 80-90mph, yawn. The whole infotainment race, and generally slower speeds is another reason quality is suffering in the mechanical bits on most cars.

[X5 MAN]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

P.S. Honda's Acura line is now considered one of the least reliable cars out there, yes even lower than BMW. I think all cars are becoming less reliable. Part of it is also cost cutting in the mechanical bits in order to be able to put more money into infotainment systems that seem so important to folks. BMW and everyone else have been cutting costs on parts customers don't see in order to add more infotainment features without raising prices significantly. Its one of the factors to me as to why newer cars often don't drive as well.

Also people driving preferences have changed. People are generally driving slower than ever keeping their distracted faces glued to their cell phones and infotainment. So a car that handles well at high speeds isn't much of an interest anymore as no one really drives fast anymore. They lack the concentration. 20 years ago I used to drive in groups of cars at 125mph+ down the interstate all the time. Now you rarely see folks doing more than 75 in the left lane on brain dead. with occasional bursts to 80-90mph, yawn. The whole infotainment race, and generally slower speeds is another reason quality is suffering in the mechanical bits on most cars.

Agreed

I drove the 2020 X5 40i as a loaner recently.

Highly impressive hi-tech infotainment screen, Panoramic 12 inc with heads up display and all 360 cameras views on parking

But driving wise, no different from a Korean KIA or a Hyundai SUV.

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by X5 MAN

Agreed

I drove the 2020 X5 40i as a loaner recently.

Highly impressive hi-tech infotainment screen, Panoramic 12 inc with heads up display and all 360 cameras views on parking

But driving wise, no different from a Korean KIA or a Hyundai SUV.

Me too, I've had one as a loaner. The best feature was driving it at night I thought with all of the interior lighting even the sunroof. I felt like I was in Tron.

But driving experience, it was just another isolated box, with lowish packaging efficiency and nothing to write home about in terms of driving. Would not hold it against someone to buy one, but it's not an enthusiasts choice.

In the end, I wont be buying one. I'd honestly like an x3 M40i more then the current X5 in terms of driving experience. I have a track day in November where I'll get to try the M5 and X5M, so I'll reserve judgment. Probably a porsche for my next SUV.