Used X5 v. Used Q7 v. New Acura MDX

[cb4]

I know I am going to get biased responses so please don't respond to this thread saying I am going to get a biased response. I will be posting this in the Audi and Acura forums as well.

So we have narrowed our choices down for our next family hauler. We have 2 children 4 and 6. We live in New England. We may need a tow vehicle (~5000lbs) at some point but right now no real need to tow. We ski a lot in the winter. And our other cars are a Honda CRV and a BMW 335xi. This car will be replacing a Honda Odyssey Touring.

I would appreciate any feed back from X5 owners who have experienced each of these (test drive, friends that own, etc).
Here are the challengers:
2009 BMW X5 15-20k miles (Diesel)
2009 Audi Q7 15k-20k miles (Diesel)
2011(new) Acura MDX Technology

My price range is 45-50k. The BMW and Audi are on the high end and the MDX is on the lower end.

Thanks in advance!

[retainage]

I recently compared the X5 to the Q7 and felt the interior space of in the X5 was so much greater than the Q7 that I did not even drive it. I only looked at the outside of the Acura and felt the styling did not compare w/ either of the other two. Just my opinions of course.

[BimmerGeorge]

Wife drives a q7 4.2 s line and I have an x5 m. Previously had an x5 4.4. One of the guys I work with has a new Mex and he drives me to lunch every day. I know all 3 of these cars well but not the diesel versions.

Between the Audi and BMW I would take the BMW. I preferred even my 4.4 to the wifes audi. When I say that I am speaking to the way they drive. IMHO once u drive a BMW it's hard to be satisfied driving anything else short of a Porsche or something. The Audi is nice but I've never been impressed with the way it drives. I know its an suv but in the BMW u forget it's an suv. Technologically they are fairly similar. Nav audio and other tech gizmos between the 2 r pretty even. One important thing. My Audi has I think a 4 or 5 speed tranny and it positively sucks. Mines an '08 so get the newer version if u decide to go with the Audi. So in short BMW over Audi and I don't even think it's close.

Now, Acura Mdx is a fine and economic ride. Fit and finish r superb. It comes down to whether u want a drivers car with more of an emphasis on sport or a very sound reliable tech laden vehicle that just doesn't match the bmw's road manners. Mdx nav audio is superior by a lot compared to BMW. It really is nice. Gets weather and finds zagat rated restaurants and much more. It really is nice. Wish I could get that setup in the BMW. I actually considered the Mdx but just couldn't give up the BMW road manners. They can't b beaten. The guy in my office with the Mdx drives pretty mildly so for him it's perfect. So if u want performance and road manners get the BMW. If that's less important, and don't get me wrong here the Mdx is extremely competent, and u want the tech toys go with the Mdx.

Sorry for the lengthy response but I hope it was helpful.

[northern2020]

Originally Posted by cb4

I know I am going to get biased responses so please don't respond to this thread saying I am going to get a biased response. I will be posting this in the Audi and Acura forums as well.

So we have narrowed our choices down for our next family hauler. We have 2 children 4 and 6. We live in New England. We may need a tow vehicle (~5000lbs) at some point but right now no real need to tow. We ski a lot in the winter. And our other cars are a Honda CRV and a BMW 335xi. This car will be replacing a Honda Odyssey Touring.

I would appreciate any feed back from X5 owners who have experienced each of these (test drive, friends that own, etc).
Here are the challengers:
2009 BMW X5 15-20k miles (Diesel)
2009 Audi Q7 15k-20k miles (Diesel)
2011(new) Acura MDX Technology

My price range is 45-50k. The BMW and Audi are on the high end and the MDX is on the lower end.

Thanks in advance!

Had a 2007 audi q7 4.2 L V8 S-line with 21" wheels and air adaptive suspension.

Traded it in for the 2011 X5M

If it were purely for family reasons, would have kept the Q7.

Ran great, no issues. There are subtle things that Audi do better (IMO- interior, fit and finish) and BMW do better (built for more performance, and the driver)

I had to take over the Q7 from my wife. It comfortably fit our 3 kids in the middle row, with radian premier 65 sunshine kids car seats (the uber kid seat)

Only dislike, is that the performance was lacking, after the X5 M came along.

Since I was looking to make it my daily, I chose the X5 M....wifey had the Escalade ESV.

If was hauling the kids around, I would have kept the Q7- quality ride, and solid.

Hope this helps

[cb4]

Originally Posted by BimmerGeorge

Sorry for the lengthy response but I hope it was helpful.

Thanks, I appreciate the lengthy response This was helpful.

[NeoChaser]

Originally Posted by cb4

I know I am going to get biased responses so please don't respond to this thread saying I am going to get a biased response. I will be posting this in the Audi and Acura forums as well.

So we have narrowed our choices down for our next family hauler. We have 2 children 4 and 6. We live in New England. We may need a tow vehicle (~5000lbs) at some point but right now no real need to tow. We ski a lot in the winter. And our other cars are a Honda CRV and a BMW 335xi. This car will be replacing a Honda Odyssey Touring.

I would appreciate any feed back from X5 owners who have experienced each of these (test drive, friends that own, etc).
Here are the challengers:
2009 BMW X5 15-20k miles (Diesel)
2009 Audi Q7 15k-20k miles (Diesel)
2011(new) Acura MDX Technology

My price range is 45-50k. The BMW and Audi are on the high end and the MDX is on the lower end.

Thanks in advance!

I went through January pretty much the same selection process as you.

I need a 7 seater so it did come down to X5d/Q7d/MDX all of them new. X5 was my first choice, i drove it and it felt very much like my 3 series. The feeling of connectedness to the road and the throttle response was unbelievable for a car of this size. On the same day, I went to my local Audi and test drove the Q7 TDI premium s-line. I have to say, the fit/finish/materials were just superb, much better than the BMW. That said, the drive was very mediocre in my opinion. I floored the pedal after a right turn at an intersection, the car nor the revs would move. Even using the sport mode/paddles, the road feel was what an "truck/suv" should drive like. I am in no way discounting the Q7's road feel, but I would put the feel of the X5 in the premium category.

As for the MDX, my family has been driving Hondas for more than 20 years, second generation civic and on, various accords and more recently the TSX. The MDX is a VERY high-valued car (value:$ ratio). Like BimmerGeorge mentioned above, the fit and finish is very good from Acura, the drive is better than the Q7, defiantly has a punch with Honda characteristics. At the same time still not up to par with the E70 IMO. It is however loaded with gadgets and technology.

So sum it up, I picked the X5 mainly because I will be driving it and not sitting in the backseat, otherwise i'd pick the Q7 or MDX. Then Between the X5 and MDX, it was more of a budget allowance.

X5
Pro: Drives great, looks good, Premium SAV
Con: Low value:$ ratio (expensive!), less interesting interior, low resale

Q7
Pro: Masterpiece interior design and finish, muscular S-line, very comfortable ride
Con: Average SUV ride (passenger's car, rather than driver's), dealer give me a pretty crappy pricing compared to X5 in terms of discount %.

MDX
Pro: Loads of technology, high Value, high resale, responsive drive w/ comfortable ride
Con: Debatable exterior design, doesn't have the premium image if that is important to you.

Hope that helps.

[Kloogy]

I suggest buying which ever is NEW. I don't believe in buying someone else's problems.

[cb4]

I test drove the MDX and Q7 today. Going the BMW now to give the X5 a go. I'll sum up my experience later.

Thanks everyone!

[apw2607]

>> Con: Low value:$ ratio (expensive!), less interesting interior, low resale

What you talking about? The X5 has a high resale value.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/41154251?slide=18

[apw2607]

Originally Posted by cb4

I know I am going to get biased responses so please don't respond to this thread saying I am going to get a biased response. I will be posting this in the Audi and Acura forums as well.

So we have narrowed our choices down for our next family hauler. We have 2 children 4 and 6. We live in New England. We may need a tow vehicle (~5000lbs) at some point but right now no real need to tow. We ski a lot in the winter. And our other cars are a Honda CRV and a BMW 335xi. This car will be replacing a Honda Odyssey Touring.

I would appreciate any feed back from X5 owners who have experienced each of these (test drive, friends that own, etc).
Here are the challengers:
2009 BMW X5 15-20k miles (Diesel)
2009 Audi Q7 15k-20k miles (Diesel)
2011(new) Acura MDX Technology

My price range is 45-50k. The BMW and Audi are on the high end and the MDX is on the lower end.

Thanks in advance!

I've got the 2009 X5 d. Great Car.

The Audi Q7 looks like a over sized boat on the road.

As for Acura. Are you having a laugh? Its not in the same league as the others. Its just a boring box with wheels.

[cb4]

Originally Posted by apw2607

As for Acura. Are you having a laugh? Its not in the same league as the others. Its just a boring box with wheels.

Based on my experience test driving each of these over the last couple of days in my opinion it is in the same league. The Audi, to me comes last. Car and drive puts these cars in the same league as well. In the last comparo these were all neck and neck. I guess if you are a badge seeker one would quickly dismiss the Acura, but I am not.

Have you driven the 2011 Acura? Just curious.

[cb4]

I test drove the the following today: 2011 X5d, 2011 X5 35i, MDX Advanced. Yesterday I test drove the MDX Technology and the 2011 Audi Q7 Premium Plus. Here is my take...

MDX
Nice interior overall but does not quite match the fit and finish of the other two. Some cheesy plastic and an ugly gauge cluster. Very functional and I love the Nav,Audio system, backup camera, etc. Of the three this has the best easiest to use technology. I thought the third row was a little bigger than the X5 however the MDX did not allow for the second row to adjust forward and back. The MDX did not have 40/20/40 split folding with a ski bag like the X5. This could be a big issue for me. I know I can always use the rack, but there are many times where I just want to throw the skis in the truck and off to the mountain.

This little SUV is quick. At 4600lbs this is the lightest of the bunch and it feels it. Very agile, quick, and fun. The engine is very responsive if a bit annoying to listen to. Especially in the higher rev band.

I preferred the more affordable Tech suspension over the advanced electronic adaptable suspension. The 19 inch wheels and "sportier" suspension offered in the Advanced made the ride too harsh (even with comfort enabled) and was not worth the added stability in the corners.

Q7
Very nice interior. Fit and finish equal to the X5. Complicated Media and Nav. I preferred the X5 and MDX media and nav system. Very flexible interior space. I liked the 40/20/40 split seats (no ski bag however). The 3rd row was a little roomier than the other two.

Under powered and far from athletic. That's how I would sum up the ride. Not a lot of positives to take away from the test drive other than to say it does soak up the bumps in the road very well. I immediatly knew when I got done with the test drive that this car was not for us. Moving on...

X5
I had a lot of expectations going into this test drive. I am a BMW enthusiast and have been so for a while. I have a certain expectation as to what a BMW will feel like before I even get in one.

The interior was right up my alley. Simple and driver oriented. Love the main gauge cluster. Of couse it looks like the 335 so I am used to it. People say how much they like the Audi interiors. I for one agree. But I still prefer the BMW interior styling. This X5 just matches my style in every way. The third row seats were pretty small, but I expected worse. Especially after all of the reading I have done. But these were pretty much on par with the MDX and Q. For my needs they work perfect. No an adult does not fit, but my kids aren't adults so I don't care.

I drove the X5 35i first. The ride was perfect, for us anyway. Its just what I expected and I was not let down. The RFTs did not show there colors like they did on my 335. The engine is so silky. Power when you need it without all of the fuss that the MDX and Q made. Steering was heavy, but I like that. The X5 does not feel as agile as the MDX but its sooo planted. After I finished the drive I knew this one was the one for us...but i soon rememberd that this powerplant does have some issues. More later.

The X5D was not quite as silky. Plenty quick with a little of low end lag and some serious grunt. I preferred the 35i silkiness but still liked the Diesel. It was cold today and the X5d was not warmed up before we took it out. After 15 minutes of test driving the idle noise quieted down to a reasonable level. But at first it sounded like an F350. It lacked the "refinement" of the first X5 we drove...maybe a lot of the refinement.

To sum it up
So here we are. The X5 is the clear winner in my mind. The MDX is no slouch. The Q7 is a tremendous slouch. So now its between the X5D and the X5 35i.

The HPFP saga
The X5 35i is a problem for me because it has the N55 engine. All of the reading I have done on this board and the Nightline debacle has mind f#@*&ed me. This car will be our long hauler primarily for the winter months into the mountains and I can't be having the fuel pump fail during our climb through the White Mountains some cold snowy night. I did ask the salesman about the HPFP issue and he said "That was a hiccup, thats all been worked out". I left it at that. And that is why the Diesel may be parked in our garage very soon.

Thanks for getting this far and can't wait for the feedback.

Cheers!

[NeoChaser]

^

[cb4]

Oh by the way I decided to go ahead and pursue ordering an '11 instead of going the used route. Primarily because there just "aint no" low mileage X5Ds available let alone equipped with the 3rd row which is a must have for us.

[NeoChaser]

Originally Posted by cb4

Oh by the way I decided to go ahead and pursue ordering an '11 instead of going the used route. Primarily because there just "aint no" low mileage X5Ds available let alone equipped with the 3rd row which is a must have for us.

we ordered the 3rd row as well..

man april can't come soon enough!

[cb4]

Originally Posted by NeoChaser

we ordered the 3rd row as well..

man april can't come soon enough!

Do you mind sharing what kind of a deal you got. We are working the numbers right now and working with 4 dealers to get the best price. Right now we are thinking 1k less than invoice. Of course this includes the 3500 eco credit.

Thanks and good luck with your purchase.

[263464757]

Originally Posted by cb4

Do you mind sharing what kind of a deal you got. We are working the numbers right now and working with 4 dealers to get the best price. Right now we are thinking 1k less than invoice. Of course this includes the 3500 eco credit.

Thanks and good luck with your purchase.

I don't know what their willing to do now, but back in Nov-Dec the general deal was..Invoice + $1000 - $2500 holiday cash(probably not available anymore) - $3500 eco credit. Unless things have changed your leaving $1500-$2000 on the table IMO, but things might have changed.

[NeoChaser]

Could someone explain to me how pricing in states work, what does over invoice mean? Like msrp 1000? cause we don't use the same terms up here

[cb4]

Originally Posted by 263464757

I don't know what their willing to do now, but back in Nov-Dec the general deal was..Invoice + $1000 - $2500 holiday cash(probably not available anymore) - $3500 eco credit. Unless things have changed your leaving $1500-$2000 on the table IMO, but things might have changed.

Thanks. great information!

WOW. Was the 2500 a factory incentive? It doesn't show up on Edmunds or TrueCar so I assume this incentive is no longer available. If that's true then I expect we are getting a good deal.

[cb4]

Originally Posted by NeoChaser

Could someone explain to me how pricing in states work, what does over invoice mean? Like msrp 1000? cause we don't use the same terms up here

We, in the US, have the following three figures to work from.

MSRP: Hardly ever used in negotiating anymore. Its a fluff number used by the dealers to atificailly inflate there prices to make it look like they can give you a good deal.

Invoice: This is what the factory invoice says. Its a reasonable place to start negotiations. Buying a car at invoice price is usually considered good. This depends on a lot of factors though.

Dealer cost: This is the actual price the dealer pays for the car after everything is said and done. Not a lot of places publish this information but it is available some places truecar.com for one. This is the number, if you can get a hold of it, where all negotiations should start. Hopefully you end up somewhere a little above or below invoice.

Hope that helps.

[263464757]

Originally Posted by cb4

Thanks. great information!

WOW. Was the 2500 a factory incentive? It doesn't show up on Edmunds or TrueCar so I assume this incentive is no longer available. If that's true then I expect we are getting a good deal.

It was an additional offer from the manufacture during the holidays. Seems like it was also based on the interest rate. If your at $1000 under invoice, including the eco credit, I still think your about $1500-2000 high.

[263464757]

Originally Posted by NeoChaser

Could someone explain to me how pricing in states work, what does over invoice mean? Like msrp 1000? cause we don't use the same terms up here

In Kentucky MSRP(Manufacture Suggested Retail Price) is the price that you see on the website. It is about 7% higher than Invoice, including all options.

In my case: MSRP: $77,625.
Invoice: $72,262.
I paid: $70,762.