Stuck between two used 2013 E70s

pattobrien · 12-19-2016, 03:47 PM

Hi guys,

So I'm really torn here. I'm looking to buy an E70, and started looking into the 2013 models for the lesser miles and further reliability. I have two solid options that I feel good about, one from a third-party (un-authorized) dealership, the other from a third-party craigslist seller:

**Vehicles are both 35i Premium with essentially the exact same options, except one has third row seating the other has the tech package. Neither options are of special interest to me.

Owner:
- 2013 w/ Prod date 9/2012, 32k miles for $27,500
- Black exterior (excellent condition, three noticable scratches, but well detailed; black interior in excellent condition)
- While vehicle belonged to his daughter in college, the father obviously took great care of the vehicle, as could be seen with all (5?) high end vehicles in his driveway

Dealer:
- 2013 w/ Prod date 3/2013, 52k miles for $24,000 (incl. dealer prep fee)
- Black exterior (great condition; beige interior in good condition - typical dirt that can be seen with beige)
- Lease vehicle that from CarFax looks to be sold by auction in Pennsylvania (red flag?). Another thing to note is that this car has a tow hitch - for what it was used, I dont know, but certainly could have put strain on the car if it was a trailer

I should note that I work for BMW of North America, so I was able to check in our backend for any other red flags, but every log checked out and looks like routine services were done at BMW dealerships.

I'm really torn, because the dealer's vehicle seems like a really great deal, but I can't help but notice the red flags of the auction and tow hitch, in accompany to the low, un-bargained price. The owner's car, while a lot more than what I'd like to spend (price range was <25k), only has 32k miles, and based on that in addition to the great interaction with the seller, I feel like it's worth it for the reliability. Gut feeling might be giving me bias, but the owner seemed very genuine and the dealership salesman seemed like... well... a salesman ("why dont you want to leave here with the car???"). Also, I have no idea if the dealership is going to last minute hike up the price like some of the google reviews have said, although I made it very clear that I wanted to know the dealer fee up front and that I would walk out if any other fee was seen on the paperwork.

Any other questions or guidance would be much appreciated... I just don't want to end up with a maintenance disaster vehicle the second I purchase it. Thanks so much in advance guys!

Pat

E70'11 · 12-19-2016, 04:09 PM

Just got done reading your thread and personally even with the $25K max budget I would buy the X5 from the owner. Granted as you should already know you'll be paying for plates, taxes and etc. on the purchasing price. It may vary in your area of course because of the sales tax but still something you'll need to consider. Ultimately causing you to spend more on top of being passed your max budget. As you mentioned red flags are red flags in my book even if it is at a dealership which they can hike up the price.

Of course this is coming from someone who likes great deals but you are getting a chance between one with 32K miles vs. 52K miles. As you mentioned earlier, the additional options aren't important and you are looking for reliability. The owner can personally tell you and show proof of servicing records which in HOPES the dealership can also.

jiggz · 12-19-2016, 05:46 PM

Of those 2 options I would choose the privately owned one w/ 20K fewer miles.

Did you decode the 2 VIN's and match up all packages/options?

The production date on the dealer owned one likely means 6 months additional warranty (dependent on specific in-service date) but still, I'd give that up for 20K fewer miles.

FWIW a lot of people install hitches on E70's, many of which are the OEM hitch. I have a hitch on mine but it's not the OEM hitch as I don't like how that one requires a section of the rear bumper to be cut out. The fact it's a PA car, yes that would be a red flag for me. I PPI'd a NJ X5 here in Seattle and it was heavily corroded...definitely something to check for if you pursue that one.

jandref321 · 12-19-2016, 07:20 PM

When are the Warranties up? The private sale seems the way to go. Brakes should be done fairly soon though and some other preventative maintenance. There is some comfort buying from a dealer with their CPO inspection, but 20k miles is a huge difference.

pattobrien · 12-19-2016, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jandref321

When are the Warranties up? The private sale seems the way to go. Brakes should be done fairly soon though and some other preventative maintenance. There is some comfort buying from a dealer with their CPO inspection, but 20k miles is a huge difference.

The kicker is that the private seller said he replaced both the brakes and tires 10k and 5k miles ago, respectively. So that right there is worth even more money... Whereas, the dealer of course didn't know, and said it would have to be determined in the PPI.

As for warranties, the dealership is un-authorized, and so the car is not CPO, but they said they had an extended warranty for an additional $4k, but I never found out if that was a BMW original warranty or the dealership's own company's warranty. But the private seller's vehicle has 9months/18k miles left on the original warranty - (Side note: does anyone know if BMW's new policy of second-owner, non-transferable maintenance, affects vehicles before 2015, when the policy was introduced?)

And so, everything was pointing to the private seller.... so after some negotiating, we settled at $26.5k. Pending a PPI, I should be the owner of an e70 tomorrow evening!!

Thanks everyone for helping me through this.. The confirmation in this thread really helped me seal the deal quicker, before anyone else had the chance to. And most importantly, I feel great about the decision, compared to the nervousness I felt when I was about to sign for the dealer's vehicle. Not sure if my gut was right, but the peace of mind is really nice right about now

Pat

jandref321 · 12-20-2016, 12:54 AM

That's exciting news! hope it works out.
When I bought my wife's X5 it came with remaining warranty and we bought the extended warranty from the mm also for $3k I felt bad about it till right before it expired and we had about $5k in repairs. Nothing ever said certified pre owned on it but it was accepted at all dealers.
When I bought a 2011 535i last year the warranty and the maintenance transferred...didn't realize that the maintenance transferred since I didn't buy it at the dealer and I found out when the plan was almost up and right after an oil change. I was 3k miles from getting brakes replaced and the service adviser said they have to wait till the counter goes off or the brakes actually wear down so I missed out. The private sale is the best bet anyway so after you buy just take it to the dealer after the sale and ask about maintenance.

UglyBuzzard · 12-20-2016, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pattobrien2124

Quote:

Originally Posted by jandref321

When are the Warranties up? The private sale seems the way to go. Brakes should be done fairly soon though and some other preventative maintenance. There is some comfort buying from a dealer with their CPO inspection, but 20k miles is a huge difference.

The kicker is that the private seller said he replaced both the brakes and tires 10k and 5k miles ago, respectively. So that right there is worth even more money... Whereas, the dealer of course didn't know, and said it would have to be determined in the PPI.

As for warranties, the dealership is un-authorized, and so the car is not CPO, but they said they had an extended warranty for an additional $4k, but I never found out if that was a BMW original warranty or the dealership's own company's warranty. But the private seller's vehicle has 9months/18k miles left on the original warranty - (Side note: does anyone know if BMW's new policy of second-owner, non-transferable maintenance, affects vehicles before 2015, when the policy was introduced?)

And so, everything was pointing to the private seller.... so after some negotiating, we settled at $26.5k. Pending a PPI, I should be the owner of an e70 tomorrow evening!!

Thanks everyone for helping me through this.. The confirmation in this thread really helped me seal the deal quicker, before anyone else had the chance to. And most importantly, I feel great about the decision, compared to the nervousness I felt when I was about to sign for the dealer's vehicle. Not sure if my gut was right, but the peace of mind is really nice right about now

Pat

Good choice.

A father takes care of the car his kid drives - especially, a daughter.

95wildtt · 12-20-2016, 09:38 AM

It's not the years, it's the miles...
And it's always better to buy from someone who cares about their car, that a dealer, IMHO.

You made the right choice. Welcome to the X5 family.

Very Nice Christmas Gift!!

NH Doubles · 12-20-2016, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pattobrien2124

The kicker is that the private seller said he replaced both the brakes and tires 10k and 5k miles ago, respectively. So that right there is worth even more money... Whereas, the dealer of course didn't know, and said it would have to be determined in the PPI.

As for warranties, the dealership is un-authorized, and so the car is not CPO, but they said they had an extended warranty for an additional $4k, but I never found out if that was a BMW original warranty or the dealership's own company's warranty. But the private seller's vehicle has 9months/18k miles left on the original warranty - (Side note: does anyone know if BMW's new policy of second-owner, non-transferable maintenance, affects vehicles before 2015, when the policy was introduced?)

And so, everything was pointing to the private seller.... so after some negotiating, we settled at $26.5k. Pending a PPI, I should be the owner of an e70 tomorrow evening!!

Thanks everyone for helping me through this.. The confirmation in this thread really helped me seal the deal quicker, before anyone else had the chance to. And most importantly, I feel great about the decision, compared to the nervousness I felt when I was about to sign for the dealer's vehicle. Not sure if my gut was right, but the peace of mind is really nice right about now

Pat

Thats the one I would have picked,the owner has money,his daughter was driving the car and he took great care of it along with the low miles.Much better then the dealer one.
We just p/u a 2103 E370 w/22 k miles (may have 23 now,I don't drive it my wife does,so far she like it thou.
Is there a way to get service history on them from dealer or BMW ?They showed my wife some of the history but would not let her have it.

CalCarNut · 12-20-2016, 03:36 PM

Carfax should show the service/repair history if it's taken to a BMW dealership. I'm looking for a 2012/2013 X5 for my wife myself...

///BShaf · 12-20-2016, 05:08 PM

good choice!

NH Doubles · 12-21-2016, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CalCarNut

Carfax should show the service/repair history if it's taken to a BMW dealership. I'm looking for a 2012/2013 X5 for my wife myself...

Its my understanding it does not show it all,at least in the cars I have owed. With Lexus there is an owners site the shows all the dealer visit's,pretty sure MB requires you go to a dealer and view them like BMW.

dudezi · 12-21-2016, 02:14 PM

car bought from Manhiem auction not necessarily a red flag, all used car dealers buy off lease from auction, even BMW dealers from auction which only open authorized dealers.

Milliwatt Rob · 12-27-2016, 07:02 AM

Lower miles w/o a tow hitch, vs. higher miles with a tow hitch.

That's a no brainer to me. Congrats on making the right choice.

sankomtech · 12-29-2016, 08:00 PM

If you want look at this car. It says 2 owners, but I was the only owner, I bought it after the lease ...

http://www.haldemanlexusofprinceton....-NJ/2882373843

I had traded this in at this Dealership in Oct 2016. The accident it reports is not even a touch, an old lady stopped and my number plate touched her car. No repairs as there was no damage.

But you can use to your advantage and negotiate a good deal maybe $1000-$1500 off.

This is still under factory warranty till Feb 2017, and can buy extended warranty if you want ... I have a dealer who was asking $5050 for a 3 year 120K Platimum coverage BMW Original ..

I have all service records, can give you if you want. All service was done at the Open Road BMW NJ ...

I have the Spare Wheel, Original RFT which I have in the classifieds. You will love it, it is pristine ...

PM me with any more info

godmans · 12-29-2016, 09:02 PM

Have you driven both trucks?
Mileage aside, it is important on how they drive, which reflects how well the respective drivetrains were maintained.

12-19-2016, 03:47 PM	#1
pattobrien Registered 1 Rep 3 Posts Drives: 2004 X5 E53 Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Woodcliff Lake, NJ iTrader: (0)	Stuck between two used 2013 E70s - Dealer vs Owner Hi guys, So I'm really torn here. I'm looking to buy an E70, and started looking into the 2013 models for the lesser miles and further reliability. I have two solid options that I feel good about, one from a third-party (un-authorized) dealership, the other from a third-party craigslist seller: **Vehicles are both 35i Premium with essentially the exact same options, except one has third row seating the other has the tech package. Neither options are of special interest to me. Owner: - 2013 w/ Prod date 9/2012, 32k miles for $27,500 - Black exterior (excellent condition, three noticable scratches, but well detailed; black interior in excellent condition) - While vehicle belonged to his daughter in college, the father obviously took great care of the vehicle, as could be seen with all (5?) high end vehicles in his driveway Dealer: - 2013 w/ Prod date 3/2013, 52k miles for $24,000 (incl. dealer prep fee) - Black exterior (great condition; beige interior in good condition - typical dirt that can be seen with beige) - Lease vehicle that from CarFax looks to be sold by auction in Pennsylvania (red flag?). Another thing to note is that this car has a tow hitch - for what it was used, I dont know, but certainly could have put strain on the car if it was a trailer I should note that I work for BMW of North America, so I was able to check in our backend for any other red flags, but every log checked out and looks like routine services were done at BMW dealerships. I'm really torn, because the dealer's vehicle seems like a really great deal, but I can't help but notice the red flags of the auction and tow hitch, in accompany to the low, un-bargained price. The owner's car, while a lot more than what I'd like to spend (price range was <25k), only has 32k miles, and based on that in addition to the great interaction with the seller, I feel like it's worth it for the reliability. Gut feeling might be giving me bias, but the owner seemed very genuine and the dealership salesman seemed like... well... a salesman ("why dont you want to leave here with the car???"). Also, I have no idea if the dealership is going to last minute hike up the price like some of the google reviews have said, although I made it very clear that I wanted to know the dealer fee up front and that I would walk out if any other fee was seen on the paperwork. Any other questions or guidance would be much appreciated... I just don't want to end up with a maintenance disaster vehicle the second I purchase it. Thanks so much in advance guys! Pat
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12-19-2016, 04:09 PM	#2
E70'11 Lieutenant 92 Rep 410 Posts Drives: \|\| E70 35i \| R32 GTR \|\| Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: U.S. iTrader: (0)	Just got done reading your thread and personally even with the $25K max budget I would buy the X5 from the owner. Granted as you should already know you'll be paying for plates, taxes and etc. on the purchasing price. It may vary in your area of course because of the sales tax but still something you'll need to consider. Ultimately causing you to spend more on top of being passed your max budget. As you mentioned red flags are red flags in my book even if it is at a dealership which they can hike up the price. Of course this is coming from someone who likes great deals but you are getting a chance between one with 32K miles vs. 52K miles. As you mentioned earlier, the additional options aren't important and you are looking for reliability. The owner can personally tell you and show proof of servicing records which in HOPES the dealership can also. __________________ 2011 E70 35i MHD Tune Stage 2+ (CURRENT) Daily Driver 1989 R32 Skyline GT-R (CURRENT) The Hunter 2010 E90 335i 1M FBO MHD Tune (SOLD) 2009 E92 335i FBO JB4 G5 ISO (SOLD)
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12-19-2016, 05:46 PM	#3
jiggz Brigadier General 2140 Rep 3,647 Posts Drives: E90 M3\|F15 X5 50i Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Seattle iTrader: (2)	Of those 2 options I would choose the privately owned one w/ 20K fewer miles. Did you decode the 2 VIN's and match up all packages/options? The production date on the dealer owned one likely means 6 months additional warranty (dependent on specific in-service date) but still, I'd give that up for 20K fewer miles. FWIW a lot of people install hitches on E70's, many of which are the OEM hitch. I have a hitch on mine but it's not the OEM hitch as I don't like how that one requires a section of the rear bumper to be cut out. The fact it's a PA car, yes that would be a red flag for me. I PPI'd a NJ X5 here in Seattle and it was heavily corroded...definitely something to check for if you pursue that one.
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12-19-2016, 07:20 PM	#4
jandref321 Captain 344 Rep 728 Posts Drives: 2012 X5M Join Date: May 2014 Location: United States iTrader: (1)	When are the Warranties up? The private sale seems the way to go. Brakes should be done fairly soon though and some other preventative maintenance. There is some comfort buying from a dealer with their CPO inspection, but 20k miles is a huge difference. __________________ 2020 G01 X3 30e CURRENT M Sport Package 2019 Ford Raptor SuperCrew CURRENT 802A, KN Drop-in, RB Flaps, Husky Well Liners 2012 E70 X5M SOLD Stg 1+ Turbos, DPs, Velos Stg 2+, JB4, Race Cats, Bavauto Coils 2003 E46 M3 SOLD aFe CAI, AP Axleback, SSK, H&R Springs, TMS CMBR Arms, PF RTABs
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12-20-2016, 12:54 AM	#6
jandref321 Captain 344 Rep 728 Posts Drives: 2012 X5M Join Date: May 2014 Location: United States iTrader: (1)	That's exciting news! hope it works out. When I bought my wife's X5 it came with remaining warranty and we bought the extended warranty from the mm also for $3k I felt bad about it till right before it expired and we had about $5k in repairs. Nothing ever said certified pre owned on it but it was accepted at all dealers. When I bought a 2011 535i last year the warranty and the maintenance transferred...didn't realize that the maintenance transferred since I didn't buy it at the dealer and I found out when the plan was almost up and right after an oil change. I was 3k miles from getting brakes replaced and the service adviser said they have to wait till the counter goes off or the brakes actually wear down so I missed out. The private sale is the best bet anyway so after you buy just take it to the dealer after the sale and ask about maintenance.
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12-20-2016, 09:38 AM	#8
95wildtt Need mo $$s 827 Rep 880 Posts Drives: 2020 X4M Competition Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Westfield, IN iTrader: (0)	It's not the years, it's the miles... And it's always better to buy from someone who cares about their car, that a dealer, IMHO. You made the right choice. Welcome to the X5 family. Very Nice Christmas Gift!! __________________ 2020 TRM-BLACK X4///M Competition 2020 Porsche Macan 1995 Dodge Stealth TwinTurbo Past: 2020 X3M, 2019 TTS, 2008 X5 4.8 M Sport
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12-20-2016, 03:36 PM	#10
CalCarNut Brigadier General 1061 Rep 3,258 Posts Drives: 2015 F36 Jet Black Sport Line Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Blue Skies iTrader: (0) Garage List 2012 BMW X3 [0.00] 2015 BMW 428i Gran ... [10.00] 1996 Chevrolet Impa ... [8.00]	Carfax should show the service/repair history if it's taken to a BMW dealership. I'm looking for a 2012/2013 X5 for my wife myself... __________________ 2015 BMW F36 428i JetBlack. Sport Line Edition 25% 3M Tint\|
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12-20-2016, 05:08 PM	#11
///BShaf Registered 0 Rep 1 Posts Drives: ///M Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: CT iTrader: (0)	good choice!
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12-21-2016, 02:14 PM	#13
dudezi Private 7 Rep 66 Posts Drives: X5 Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: NY iTrader: (0)	car bought from Manhiem auction not necessarily a red flag, all used car dealers buy off lease from auction, even BMW dealers from auction which only open authorized dealers.
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12-27-2016, 07:02 AM	#14
Milliwatt Rob Fool on the Hill 0 Rep 8 Posts Drives: 2013 X5 Xdrive 35d Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Southern Vermont iTrader: (0)	Lower miles w/o a tow hitch, vs. higher miles with a tow hitch. That's a no brainer to me. Congrats on making the right choice.
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12-29-2016, 08:00 PM	#15
sankomtech New Member 0 Rep 26 Posts Drives: BMW X5d 2013 - E70 Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Central NJ iTrader: (0)	Can help ... If you want look at this car. It says 2 owners, but I was the only owner, I bought it after the lease ... http://www.haldemanlexusofprinceton....-NJ/2882373843 I had traded this in at this Dealership in Oct 2016. The accident it reports is not even a touch, an old lady stopped and my number plate touched her car. No repairs as there was no damage. But you can use to your advantage and negotiate a good deal maybe $1000-$1500 off. This is still under factory warranty till Feb 2017, and can buy extended warranty if you want ... I have a dealer who was asking $5050 for a 3 year 120K Platimum coverage BMW Original .. I have all service records, can give you if you want. All service was done at the Open Road BMW NJ ... I have the Spare Wheel, Original RFT which I have in the classifieds. You will love it, it is pristine ... PM me with any more info
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12-29-2016, 09:02 PM	#16
godmans First Lieutenant 17 Rep 310 Posts Drives: 135i / 335i / X6M Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: 6ix iTrader: (6)	Have you driven both trucks? Mileage aside, it is important on how they drive, which reflects how well the respective drivetrains were maintained.
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