X5M s63 Cold 90C Thermostat

[Thecastle]

I also added a turbo blanket and radiant heat shields to the hoses/lines in the engine bay on the x5m. I did all of this to keep the lines from failing as fast having replaced nearly everything and to delay valve steam seal failure.

The lower coolant and oil temps may keep the valve stem seals cooler and reduce the rate that they loose their elastomers promoting a longer life. The s63 has revised head cooling compared to the n63 which probably is why valve stem seal failures are a lot less common on the s63. If only they could have fixed those rear main seals and turbo oil lines......

[Leon S. Kennedy]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

Again, some of us have already tried a lower temp tune. The tune just turns on the heating element in the thermostat triggering it to open sooner same as the factory tune can. Leaving the heating element on all the time will cause it to fail earlier. That’s why everyone who wants this mod ends up eventually with a recalibrated thermostat.

Stock cruising temp is 105c. The lowest modified temp is 93c. Any lower and you’ll throw a check engine light for tstat failure. I’m sure a software person could block that code.

The biggest downside to this is lower fuel efficiency and lower oil temps, which can be a problem in cold climates. Though I don’t think it’s a big deal. Also if you run in m mode the car drops it’s temps automatically for better timing advance.

I’ve been running modified thermostats on a 2008 4.8i, 2011 X5m and 2016 550i and thus far haVe noticed no downsides, or benefits. I do notice on my 550i. It takes a very long time to have the oil reach full temp, like in cold weather, 30mins around town isn’t going to do it. X5M oil temps seem unaffected. Also the 550i keeps itself around 98c coolant in hot weather but still gets to 102-105c when sitting in traffic.

X5M with S63B44 engine doesn't drop temps in M mode unfortunately, this future is available to S63B44TU engines.

Everything you have said is bullet proof but we are not talking only about to tune thermostat. person who writes maps should take our engines ECU program and set all maps of turbos, cooling, radiators, mixture, thermostat and all staff which are responsible to work on 90 degree, that's the tuner job. We aren't talking just find one map which is responsible for thermos and just lower it to 90. In this case fuel mixture anyway will be rich and ECU always will try reach normal operative tepms. So this is what causes poor mpg and can fail thermos heating element.

Tuner should adjust all maps under 90 degree working temps. Trust me guys this is not sci-fi scenario

I'm from little country Georgia, Tbilisi and trying to find worldwide person who can do this. Tomorrow I'm going to call to one person who works in Moscow, Russia. He does amazing things in tuning and also has X5M E70 for years. I'm sure he should have solution. I'll write up here the conclusions.

But, the reason of this topic is that we can ask this question to our tuners worldwide. We are people who have performance cars and we love them. All of us knows good mechanics and tuners.

If we find person who already has this tune or will do it imagine how many of us will save their engines. One month ago I spent almost 10K to service my engine and don't want to ruin it because of this excessive heat under my monte carlo blau hood

[0-60Motorsports]

Just install the ECS one. It made a huge difference in mine and we live in a place where average temps are 115-125f with high humidity.

[darkb0y]

Originally Posted by 0-60Motorsports

Just install the ECS one. It made a huge difference in mine and we live in a place where average temps are 115-125f with high humidity.

Hey you bought bremmen or hamburg one?

[0-60Motorsports]

Originally Posted by darkb0y

Hey you bought bremmen or hamburg one?

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-hamburg-...37586885-90c~/

NT

[Thecastle]

I would not recommend the ECS tuning hamburg(er)-tech one. I purchased 2x of these to install on my X5M and 550i, both were not re-calibrated as they were supposed to be and ran at the stock 105C. I ended up purchasing the bmwlogic 7 instead and having to replace the thermostats again to get the 93C like your supposed to.

Sadly I've done this swap now 5x times and a t-stat swap is not fun, that one damn bolt.... Anyway, I wouldn't risk it given the pia factor of swapping the t-stat, getting the ecs tech. They took both of mine back and refunded my money, as they were incorrectly calibrated. Some other poor bastard has probably purchased my returned units and found the same thing...

I've been running 90C t-stats on my X5M and 2016 550i, over a year with 0 issues, except lower temps. Though I did have to have a valve cover seal replaced on my x5M recently so it wont entirely prevent oil leaks.

[0-60Motorsports]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

I would not recommend the ECS tuning hamburg(er)-tech one. I purchased 2x of these to install on my X5M and 550i, both were not re-calibrated as they were supposed to be and ran at the stock 105C. I ended up purchasing the bmwlogic 7 instead and having to replace the thermostats again to get the 93C like your supposed to.

Sadly I've done this swap now 5x times and a t-stat swap is not fun, that one damn bolt.... Anyway, I wouldn't risk it given the pia factor of swapping the t-stat, getting the ecs tech. They took both of mine back and refunded my money, as they were incorrectly calibrated. Some other poor bastard has probably purchased my returned units and found the same thing...

I've been running 90C t-stats on my X5M and 2016 550i, over a year with 0 issues, except lower temps. Though I did have to have a valve cover seal replaced on my x5M recently so it wont entirely prevent oil leaks.

I'm sorry I didn't get where you purchased the thermostat from after the ecs ones were not ok.

I am running the ecs one and it's running perfect and below 90c in most cases from the readings in the secret menu in the dash

[Thecastle]

bmwlogic7. They sell them on ebay and on their website. The changed their name to bavlogic since I've purchased from them. Bought 1x for my 2008 4.8i in 2017, then tried the cheaper hamburg techs in 2020, they were both defectively calibrated. Removed them and went back to bavlogic for recalibrated t-stat for my 2011 X5M and 2016 550i, works perfectly. All BMW v8s since the n62 (probably older engines too) use the same t-stat.

https://www.bavlogic.com/?cat=151

I'm hardly the 1st one with problems with the hamburg tech ones. Its a bit of a craps shoot with hamburg. However, given the effort of changing the T-stat I won't take the chance of using the hamburg tech ones again. Would try another supplier. Some work great, and if you search a lot of folks end up with un-calibrated ones like I did, or calibrated too cold at 90C which will throw a check engine light. So their quality control isn't the greatest.

[argento]

Very interesting discussion. Do you change the radiator cap w this upgrade?

[darkb0y]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

bmwlogic7. They sell them on ebay and on their website. The changed their name to bavlogic since I've purchased from them. Bought 1x for my 2008 4.8i in 2017, then tried the cheaper hamburg techs in 2020, they were both defectively calibrated. Removed them and went back to bavlogic for recalibrated t-stat for my 2011 X5M and 2016 550i, works perfectly. All BMW v8s since the n62 (probably older engines too) use the same t-stat.

https://www.bavlogic.com/?cat=151

I'm hardly the 1st one with problems with the hamburg tech ones. Its a bit of a craps shoot with hamburg. However, given the effort of changing the T-stat I won't take the chance of using the hamburg tech ones again. Would try another supplier. Some work great, and if you search a lot of folks end up with un-calibrated ones like I did, or calibrated too cold at 90C which will throw a check engine light. So their quality control isn't the greatest.

I feel your unlucky experience, but I spoke with 3 people who bought HT thermostat and everything is perfect.
They told that they have like 88-92° on a highway and 98 when city traffic.

And btw I'm ready to buy HT one too.

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by argento

Very interesting discussion. Do you change the radiator cap w this upgrade?

No, no need to change it, unless it’s falling apart. I did replace it when I replaced my expansion tank on my e70 that had cracked and was leaking.

Some folks like to replace it with a lower max pressure unit. With coolant staying below boiling most of the time with a “90c” thermostat there is not any reason your cooling system will see high pressures. The cap is an emergency pressure relief valve to limit the amount of pressure in the system. It doesn’t dictate the pressure. Temperature is mainly what dictates the amount of pressure the system is under.

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by darkb0y

I feel your unlucky experience, but I spoke with 3 people who bought HT thermostat and everything is perfect.
They told that they have like 88-92° on a highway and 98 when city traffic.

And btw I'm ready to buy HT one too.

You’ll throw a check engine light with temps under 90c. Which is why most tstats are recalibrated to 93c.

Yeah some people have good look with ht and a lot don’t. Their qc is lacking. Do some searches a lot of folks besides myself have problems with them. A lot work. But other suppliers don’t have these quality issues. So why take the gamble of having to do the replacement 2x?

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1425973

Also in my 550i. Temps are higher because of radiator shutters. The car has means other than Tstat for regulating temps.

[darkb0y]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

You’ll throw a check engine light with temps under 90c. Which is why most tstats are recalibrated to 93c.

Yeah some people have good look with ht and a lot don’t. Their qc is lacking. Do some searches a lot of folks besides myself have problems with them. A lot work. But other suppliers don’t have these quality issues. So why take the gamble of having to do the replacement 2x?

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1425973

Also in my 550i. Temps are higher because of radiator shutters. The car has means other than Tstat for regulating temps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRr60pYNva0

[Thecastle]

Yeah, on a short run low temps won’t throw a check engine light. But temps consistently below 90c will. It’s been covered extensively in other threads one of which I linked above. This guys engine temps hit 93-96c which is what you’d expect on a fully warmed engine around the 745 mark with a recalibrated tstat. Then he floors it and temps drop. the engine temps are dme controlled so the car under heavy load activates a tstat heater to open it further and lower coolant temps. Glad this Hamburg tech worked. Like I said it’s a craps shoot with Hamburg tech some work, some don’t.

[Dawgz]

reviving this thread a little.

I was going to go with the Hamburg thermostat but then saw how some people have had it fail within a year. Also, noticed a review that someone who installed it in their x5m showed the temps at 94C after the swap. Which is good, much better than 105-106C.

However the whole hit or miss, and high possibility of failure within a year is a no go for me.
I purchased the N63intake 85C thermostat instead, in one of the video reviews i found online, the guy who installed it on his x5M was able to see temps at 91C.


I'll post back once its installed and i give it some logging to see what my conditions are, i am told this will also lower the oil temps which for me are also on the high end at 225-228F sometimes. I will post back on both results (of coolant and oil).

[Thecastle]

Let us know how the "85C" t-stat works for you.

Most T-Stats "90C" are re-calibrated OEM to 100% open at around ~93C (90-95C) (to low and your engine throws a code, generally around 88C or less). I've seen it happen on some cars with the N63/2.

Coolant temps I've found on my cars can be hotter or colder than the 100% opening temp. Just depends on conditions, i.e. how cold it is outside, how much engine load, and etc. I generally see my X5M temps in the 93-98C range, once the oil has come to full temp. Sometimes 100C when idling in summer heat. When the oil isn't fully warmed lower than 90C coolant temps are normal for me. Generally it sticks to 91-95 when moving, higher when sitting in traffic. Same with the 550i. 93-98C depending on conditions once fully warmed.

I have not noticed a decrease in oil temps, I believe there is a separate t-stat for the oil.

[Dawgz]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

Let us know how the "85C" t-stat works for you.

Most T-Stats "90C" are re-calibrated OEM to 100% open at around ~93C (90-95C) (to low and your engine throws a code, generally around 88C or less). I've seen it happen on some cars with the N63/2.

Coolant temps I've found on my cars can be hotter or colder than the 100% opening temp. Just depends on conditions, i.e. how cold it is outside, how much engine load, and etc. I generally see my X5M temps in the 93-98C range, once the oil has come to full temp. Sometimes 100C when idling in summer heat. When the oil isn't fully warmed lower than 90C coolant temps are normal for me. Generally it sticks to 91-95 when moving, higher when sitting in traffic. Same with the 550i. 93-98C depending on conditions once fully warmed.

I have not noticed a decrease in oil temps, I believe there is a separate t-stat for the oil.

Ya I have the oil cooler valve also but going to try this tstat first.

[Thecastle]

I never bothered with the oil cooler temp, as it never seemed to be a problem for me at its normal operating temp. I have seen it rise significantly (but the t-stat wouldn't help), when towing in the X5M slowly up mountain grades. Or the 550i same thing, driving 25-30mph up steep mountain grades.

[Dawgz]

The lower temp thermostat is in! Right now outside temps are 18F, highway testing showed coolant temps at 165F and oil temps at 200! No need for me to install the oil cooler valve now.

Drove for about 42 miles, no codes for the cooler temps. I will update if something does come up.


Loving it so far.

[0-60Motorsports]

Originally Posted by Dawgz

The lower temp thermostat is in! Right now outside temps are 18F, highway testing showed coolant temps at 165F and oil temps at 200! No need for me to install the oil cooler valve now.

Drove for about 42 miles, no codes for the cooler temps. I will update if something does come up.


Loving it so far.

That is almost the same as mine in 125f outside temps! It'll go up to like 80c then come down to 78c. Nice work.

[BLX5ME70]

Dawgz hello dawgz. Im also looking to upgrade temperature for my x5m e70. Is it any engine check using n63 85*c? Thanks b4

[TTV8M]

Originally Posted by Dawgz

Spoke with my tuner. He confirmed it's doable (dropping the coolant temps via tune) but advised against it for folks who live in somewhat colder climates like myself here in NJ.

What tuner do you recommend