E70 Spacers

[Die Wolfe]

Originally Posted by Maxx2

Hi Die Wolfe!

I purchased the spacers from Turner Motorsport:

(4075725-14125) H&R 20mm Wheel Spacers with Wheel Bolts - BMW F10 F01 X5M X6 (Pair) $142.45

(3075740-14125) H&R 15mm Wheel Spacers with Wheel Bolts - E70 X5, E71 X6 (Pair) $138.45

I chose the H&R as their products are always top quality and they are a well known company with proven racing experience. I would never go with a small shop with a lathe making these for half price. I would not want to risk the potential for sub-par materials or workmanship which could cause vibrations or worst case catastrophic failure! No thanks...

One thing to consider about the 25mm rear spacers is the fact that the spacer is bolted to the hubs and the wheels are bolted to the spacers. In my opinion that is NOT a desireable condition, but others may disagree. On a 200hp car that may be ok, but not on this beast which can snap axles with a hard launch. Just something to think about.

I will take some pics later today and post them.

Thanks!!

(Btw, received the package! Excellent!)

Ohhhh, so the 20mm are safer? I don't wanna risk anything so maybe I'll stick with 20mm. Thanks man and glad the package arrived!

[Devimik]

Originally Posted by Die Wolfe

Ohhhh, so the 20mm are safer? I don't wanna risk anything so maybe I'll stick with 20mm. Thanks man and glad the package arrived!

I wouldn't feel comfortable with the spacer bolted to the hub and the wheel only bolted to the spacer. I am sure they are engineered well, but that doesn't seem like the strongest connection. I'd get 20mm with the longer bolts that go through the spacers into the hub - that will be stronger.

[Die Wolfe]

Originally Posted by Devimik

I wouldn't feel comfortable with the spacer bolted to the hub and the wheel only bolted to the spacer. I am sure they are engineered well, but that doesn't seem like the strongest connection. I'd get 20mm with the longer bolts that go through the spacers into the hub - that will be stronger.

Agreed. This is the route I will go, thanks!

[brian5]

Originally Posted by Devimik

I wouldn't feel comfortable with the spacer bolted to the hub and the wheel only bolted to the spacer. I am sure they are engineered well, but that doesn't seem like the strongest connection. I'd get 20mm with the longer bolts that go through the spacers into the hub - that will be stronger.

That doesn't make sense to me. I would think that the longer bolts that you need to use would be the less desirable route (but that's just my opinion). I know there is no two-piece in sizes smaller than 25mm.

[APLINE_997]

The two piece bolt on adapter is actually considered safer as it is bolted on your car first and then the regular lugs are then bolted on to the adapter. This is effectively the same load as stock on the suspension. Longer spacers without adapters use longer bolts but change the load on the suspension slightly. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am going off what I can remember about asking this questions years ago. I am sure googling for a little bit could yield better search results.

[Devimik]

Originally Posted by brian5

That doesn't make sense to me. I would think that the longer bolts that you need to use would be the less desirable route (but that's just my opinion). I know there is no two-piece in sizes smaller than 25mm.

Well, I'm no engineer, but the bolts are not that much longer. I don't know which is structurally better or safer, but I don't like the fact that with the adapter, it's screwed to the hub and then your wheels are screwed to the adapter, which, to me, creates two possible points of failure.

If you look at these adapters, the threads you screw your original lugs into are press fit into the adapter. That's the part I don't feel comfortable with. I have no idea whether or not that press fit would ever fail, but let's just say, I wouldn't want those on my car. Just my opinion.

[Devimik]

Originally Posted by APLINE_997

The two piece bolt on adapter is actually considered safer as it is bolted on your car first and then the regular lugs are then bolted on to the adapter. This is effectively the same load as stock on the suspension. Longer spacers without adapters use longer bolts but change the load on the suspension slightly. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am going off what I can remember about asking this questions years ago. I am sure googling for a little bit could yield better search results.

Not sure how the load differs between using adapters and the same size spacers - can't correct you because I don't know for sure that's true. Regardless of what anyone says, I don't feel comfortable using adapters with the press fit threads for the original lug bolts, where the only connection of the wheel to the hub is through a press fit threaded connection. If the threads were in the actual hub itself, that might make me feel more comfortable.

[Maxx2]

Update...

Before and after pictures. 15mm front and 20mm rear.

[Devimik]

Looks great - much better!

[brian5]

You have confirmed what I thought from other pictures. IMO, 20mm is the really the widest that one should go on the rear. 25mm and 30mm spacers make the tires stick our beyond the flares -- which is a "tricked-out Honda" look

[Maxx2]

Originally Posted by Devimik

Looks great - much better!

Thanks.

Originally Posted by brian5

You have confirmed what I thought from other pictures. IMO, 20mm is the really the widest that one should go on the rear. 25mm and 30mm spacers make the tires stick our beyond the flares -- which is a "tricked-out Honda" look

Agreed!! Anything more and it would look too "fast and furious"... I think this is the absolute limit.

[skunkd]

Originally Posted by brian5

You have confirmed what I thought from other pictures. IMO, 20mm is the really the widest that one should go on the rear. 25mm and 30mm spacers make the tires stick our beyond the flares -- which is a "tricked-out Honda" look

1.) Really, you can't seriously judge that from those pictures?

2.) It depends on what wheels you are running and their factory offset to begin with... You can't just say this spacer is too much without saying what wheel or what offset your wheel originally is.

3.) I have 25mm spacers in the rear for a +10 offset overall (my wheels are 22x11 +35 to begin with) in the rear and I'm still under the fender. Kinda wish I went with the 30. And no, it looks nothing like some "tricked-out honda look."


Lastly, the longer the bolt, the less safe it is... I mean this just makes sense, you think they couldn't make 25mm or 30mm spacers work with a straight bolt? They could and it'd be much easier to produce, but the bolt is the weak link here so they chose to make it two pieces (wheel to spacer, spacer to hub) for added safety.


I find it very strange that he went with a 15mm in the front and only a 20 in the rear. Why not just a 10 or 12 in the front?

[Maxx2]

Originally Posted by skunkd

1.) Really, you can't seriously judge that from those pictures?

2.) It depends on what wheels you are running and their factory offset to begin with... You can't just say this spacer is too much without saying what wheel or what offset your wheel originally is.

3.) I have 25mm spacers in the rear for a +10 offset overall (my wheels are 22x11 +35 to begin with) in the rear and I'm still under the fender. Kinda wish I went with the 30. And no, it looks nothing like some "tricked-out honda look."


Lastly, the longer the bolt, the less safe it is... I mean this just makes sense, you think they couldn't make 25mm or 30mm spacers work with a straight bolt? They could and it'd be much easier to produce, but the bolt is the weak link here so they chose to make it two pieces (wheel to spacer, spacer to hub) for added safety.


I find it very strange that he went with a 15mm in the front and only a 20 in the rear. Why not just a 10 or 12 in the front?

1) Why not? It is quite obvious from those pictures that the wheels are pushed out as far as possible without going beyond the fender flares.

2) He was obviously referring to this specific application and therefore his point is valid.

3) What's your point? If you purchased a set of wheels with the incorrect offset then yes, theoretically you could use a 50mm spacer and still have them tucked in. (Hint: You bought the wrong wheels)

4) Unless you can provide facts to back up your claims then don't try to argue this point. There is plenty of data online to prove otherwise.
A 20mm longer bolt does not inherently make it "less safe". Knowing what type of bolt is being used is a critical point which you've left out.

5) You find it strange? I actually measured the distances before spacers and then purchased the closest available H&R spacers to reach those numbers front and rear. Why should I have chosen 10mm or 12mm when the measured gap was closer to 18mm? To be different? Makes absolutely no sense.

If you decide to use 50mm spacers front and rear that's great for you. Next time choose a set of wheels with the proper offset for your vehicle...

[skunkd]

Originally Posted by Maxx2

1) Why not? It is quite obvious from those pictures that the wheels are pushed out as far as possible without going beyond the fender flares.

2) He was obviously referring to this specific application and therefore his point is valid.

3) What's your point? If you purchased a set of wheels with the incorrect offset then yes, theoretically you could use a 50mm spacer and still have them tucked in. (Hint: You bought the wrong wheels)

4) Unless you can provide facts to back up your claims then don't try to argue this point. There is plenty of data online to prove otherwise.
A 20mm longer bolt does not inherently make it "less safe". Knowing what type of bolt is being used is a critical point which you've left out.

5) You find it strange? I actually measured the distances before spacers and then purchased the closest available H&R spacers to reach those numbers front and rear. Why should I have chosen 10mm or 12mm when the measured gap was closer to 18mm? To be different? Makes absolutely no sense.

If you decide to use 50mm spacers front and rear that's great for you. Next time choose a set of wheels with the proper offset for your vehicle...

What did you measure exactly did you measure? The distance between the fender and tire sidewall?

I never said the 20mm is weaker did I? I love how you put words in my mouth. But, there is in fact a certain length where bolts can no longer safely support the width of spacer (This IS A FACT and 20mm is near that cutoff) Trust me I've been using spacers for years on a variety of cars whether 25mm or 3 inch bolt on to hub and never had an issue.

And maybe you should do some research but... OEM wheels from BWM for the X5 come with from offsets from anywhere between +35 to +53... SO some NEED a larger spacer than 20mm not because they bought the wrong wheel... but because IT CAME WITH THEIR CAR FROM THE FACTORY...

NOT EVERYONE HAS x5m wheels which are more offset to begin with... and brian5 probably didn't realize that either just pointing that out.

[Maxx2]

Originally Posted by skunkd

What did you measure? The distance between the fender and tire sidewall?

I never said the 20mm is weaker did I? But, there is in fact a certain length where bolts can no longer safely support the width of spacer (This IS A FACT) Trust me I've been using spacers for years on a variety of cars whether 25mm or 3 inch bolt on to hub and never had an issue.

1) That is correct. The actual measurements were:

Front
--------
.715in (18.161mm)


Rear
-------
.775in (19.685mm)


2) Not sure where you are going with this one... this is what you wrote;

Lastly, the longer the bolt, the less safe it is... I mean this just makes sense

The fact that you have been using spacers for many years has no relevance. Please provide actual data if you would like to prove a point.

And maybe you should do some research but... OEM wheels from BWM for the X5 come with from offsets from anywhere between +35 to +53... SO some NEED a larger spacer than 20mm not because they bought the wrong wheel... but because IT CAME WITH THEIR CAR FROM THE FACTORY...

NOT EVERYONE HAS x5m wheels which are more offset to begin with... and brian5 probably didn't realize that either just pointing that out.

Nice edit...

Again, what's your point? A comment was made in reference to a specific picture which applies to that specific application only. Of course there are 100's of different wheels/offsets available from BMW. The comment was a response to very specific wheel/tire/spacer application.

[skunkd]

Originally Posted by Maxx2

1) That is correct. The actual measurements were:

Front
--------
.715in (18.161mm)


Rear
-------
.775in (19.685mm)


2) Not sure where you are going with this one... this is what you wrote;



The fact that you have been using spacers for many years has no relevance. Please provide actual data if you would like to prove a point.

Seriously, find me a 25mm spacer or a 4 inch spacer that uses a bolt straight through... Think for a second... If they aren't produced it is clearly because the studs or bolts cannot support the load... The 2 piece spacer system is just as safe as the limited available widths of 20mm and below on a single bolt bearing spacer. As long as you bought them from a reputable manufacturer

[skunkd]

Originally Posted by Maxx2

Nice edit...

Again, what's your point? A comment was made in reference to a specific picture which applies to that specific application only. Of course there are 100's of different wheels/offsets available from BMW. The comment was a response to very specific wheel/tire/spacer application.

LOL he doesn't even have the same wheels so you're telling me you want him to put 20mm spacers on his car and wonder why it didn't come out flush like your's? Please... Now he got the idea that 20mm should be the max from your pictures but you are using totally different wheels so that changes everything which is why I corrected him saying that it's not right to set a maximum because you have to go by your own measurements not by someone's pictures with different wheels/fenders. If you want to get it right and you should not limit yourself to 20mm because 25mm and 30mm are just as safe.

[hd2000fxdl]

Folks, Spaces are just that, by the laws of physics, yes the thicker the spacer the more stress your applying. For the applications we are using them for is that a factor, probably not in 99.9999% of the applications. Can how you drive have a factor, I'd say yes as well, but I'll go back to that 99.99999% of the people aren't going to get anywhere close to crossing that line.

Now for the size of spacer???? I never like seeing "You need this or that" "Well it works on my vehicle" that's all well and good, but are both people running the same rime's same off set, and lastly same tire. Maybe, but probably not in a lot of cases.

The only real way you are going to know that you picked the right size it to measure to get the look and stance you want, why play the What do you use, and gamble when all it take is a few minutes, a piece of wood and something to measure with.

Now talks about what brands of spacers, and who has the best quality, good places to deal with, and pictures of people setup are all helpful as well.

Harry

[rennis]

Originally Posted by hd2000fxdl

Folks, Spaces are just that, by the laws of physics, yes the thicker the spacer the more stress your applying. For the applications we are using them for is that a factor, probably not in 99.9999% of the applications. Can how you drive have a factor, I'd say yes as well, but I'll go back to that 99.99999% of the people aren't going to get anywhere close to crossing that line.

If we're talking about the X5 M, or any of the M Sport variations of the E70, I would not worry too much about the "stress" we are applying to the rotating assembly of these vehicles by adding a 20mm or 15mm spacer.

If anything is stressing bearings, it's the UN-FREAKING-BELIEVABLY heavy wheels and tires these come with. If you haven't felt the heft of a 20x11 cast BMW wheel (especially the 333M) and a run flat Bridgestone, I suggest you pick one up before you start worrying about spacer stress. I also suggest you put on a back brace first.

[windsailor]

Originally Posted by rennis

If we're talking about the X5 M, or any of the M Sport variations of the E70, I would not worry too much about the "stress" we are applying to the rotating assembly of these vehicles by adding a 20mm or 15mm spacer.

If anything is stressing bearings, it's the UN-FREAKING-BELIEVABLY heavy wheels and tires these come with. If you haven't felt the heft of a 20x11 cast BMW wheel (especially the 333M) and a run flat Bridgestone, I suggest you pick one up before you start worrying about spacer stress. I also suggest you put on a back brace first.

LOL I did and can tell you're right, those things are heavy, but certainly appreciate everyone's comments while trying to make up my mind around the spacers

[Diesel X5]

I plan on putting 25mm on the rear of my sport X5 this week, I will be leaving the front stock as I will be towing a 6000 lb trailer.

[larryv]

For the members that are wondering what the 25 mm H&R looks like installed, here it is. I am using the 25mm setup and the my rear tires do not stick out.