Still want an EV? (NO POLITICS)

[baron95]

To me, the picture below is the most important thing that prospective EV buyers don't understand.

There is a big range decrease when temperatures drop, and, more importantly, a huge range decrease when speeds increase.

To me, range is only important on a long road trip. On a long road trip I want to drive fast. And I often travel with temps below freezing.

A 380mi (EPA) Model X can turn into a 150 mi range at higher speeds on the highway in winter.

Consider that most drivers won't start a trip at 100% of charge and won't run the car range all the way to zero, and the real range is more like 100-120mi.

That is simply pitiful. So EVs may be practical for commuting in CA. But they are not practical for long distance driving in cold climates.

(and I'm a huge EV proponent - they work well as a short distance vehicle and my gf has one that I like)

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by baron95

To me, the picture below is the most important thing that prospective EV buyers don't understand.

There is a big range decrease when temperatures drop, and, more importantly, a huge range decrease when speeds increase.

To me, range is only important on a long road trip. On a long road trip I want to drive fast. And I often travel with temps below freezing.

A 380mi (EPA) Model X can turn into a 150 mi range at higher speeds on the highway in winter.

Consider that most drivers won't start a trip at 100% of charge and won't run the car range all the way to zero, and the real range is more like 100-120mi.

That is simply pitiful. So EVs may be practical for commuting in CA. But they are not practical for long distance driving in cold climates.

(and I'm a huge EV proponent - they work well as a short distance vehicle and my gf has one that I like)

If you drive 80 mph at under 32 degrees you still get 200 miles. Maybe don't drive at 100 mph.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by dfox

83 times more likely to have an ICE catch fire in Sweden with the number being more realistic than the Australian number since they have a much higher ratio of EV to ICE.

How much water does it take to put out an ICE fire? Could you put out 83 ICE fires with the water it takes to put out one EV fire? Probably not.

You've gotta park one of those in your garage with your family. For every time that EV would kill you, you'd have already died 83 times with an ICE.

A little perspective is all. Ya'll are just so far gone.

What gets lost in the data is condition of the cars. Sure, there are more fires with ICEV but three factors are mostly accountable: (1) age (deteriorated fuel system components), (2) poor maintenance (deteriorated fuel system components), (3) severe accidents (that break deteriorated fuel system components). The other difference is ICEV do not catch on fire spontaneously while parked and not running. Lead-acid batteries do not catch fire without provocation, meaning poor handling or improper use. Gasoline cars blow up in movies and generally not in real life.

EVs can burn underwater. EVs catch on fire when charging (at night in the family garage while everyone is sleeping).

I've driven over 1M miles, mostly in old, high-mileage vehicles. Of the 15 or so vehicles I've owned, not one has caught on fire. And that includes four (4) Pintos.

[dfox]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

What gets lost in the data is condition of the cars. Sure, there are more fires with ICEV but three factors are mostly accountable: (1) age (deteriorated fuel system components), (2) poor maintenance (deteriorated fuel system components), (3) severe accidents (that break deteriorated fuel system components). The other difference is ICEV do not catch on fire spontaneously while parked and not running. Lead-acid batteries do not catch fire without provocation, meaning poor handling or improper use. Gasoline cars blow up in movies and generally not in real life.

EVs can burn underwater. EVs catch on fire when charging (at night in the family garage while everyone is sleeping).

I've driven over 1M miles, mostly in old, high-mileage vehicles. Of the 15 or so vehicles I've owned, not one has caught on fire. And that includes four (4) Pintos.

Distractions. And moving the goalpost. Talk about carbon monoxide poisoning from ice left running into the garage?. Fire is fire. EV's aren't that big of a risk. It's overblown but all the anti-ev crowd needs something to pout about.

[dfox]

Originally Posted by baron95

To me, the picture below is the most important thing that prospective EV buyers don't understand.

There is a big range decrease when temperatures drop, and, more importantly, a huge range decrease when speeds increase.

To me, range is only important on a long road trip. On a long road trip I want to drive fast. And I often travel with temps below freezing.

A 380mi (EPA) Model X can turn into a 150 mi range at higher speeds on the highway in winter.

Consider that most drivers won't start a trip at 100% of charge and won't run the car range all the way to zero, and the real range is more like 100-120mi.

That is simply pitiful. So EVs may be practical for commuting in CA. But they are not practical for long distance driving in cold climates.

(and I'm a huge EV proponent - they work well as a short distance vehicle and my gf has one that I like)

Ev buyers get that. It's the anti ev crowd that suck it up. EV's aren't road trip cars. Never were, never should be. That's what ice is for. Never getting rid of my ice, but also never getting rid of my EV commuter either...

[baron95]

Originally Posted by gblansten

If you drive 80 mph at under 32 degrees you still get 200 miles. Maybe don't drive at 100 mph.

That is true only if you run from 100% to 0%. Who would do that in the real world?

80% to 15% state of charge is the practical usable range of an EV - I.e. one that can be recharged to relatively quickly and is not anxiety inducing.

So knock 1/3 out of that max range.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by eugenebmw

Not to mention the toxic smokes from the hours of burning

https://www.gard.no/web/articles?doc...ike%20hydrogen.

With the EV catching fire that was charging in or outside the garage then folk could well be poisoned by the toxic fumes mixed with the cancerous fine soot.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by dfox

Distractions. And moving the goalpost. Talk about carbon monoxide poisoning from ice left running into the garage?. Fire is fire. EV's aren't that big of a risk. It's overblown but all the anti-ev crowd needs something to pout about.

Didn't move the goal posts. What catches on fire in an ICEV? The gasoline. How does the gasoline get out of the fuel system? Some part of the fuel system breaks.

Most states require in home/in garage carbon monoxide monitors. Wake up and open a window. If an EV fire starts in the garage it's usually too late... jump out the window and break your spine.

Or just don't be a dumbass and make sure then engine is off.

[KRS_SN]

Confession/explanation time.

Let me make this clear. I am very firmly against EV as the sole transportation method and ice ban etc so why did I buy one.

The good
Bought used 1 yr old bmw IX with 12k miles at 66% of original sticker price in june 23.

Government incentive gives me 9% of purchase price back as a cheque tax credit. = $ 6933. (When I sell I'll have to hand back 50%of amount I sold it for though), also cheque for $ 920 for home charger installation. Plus no road tax so $620 a year saving


In Glasgow (UK) home charging rates between 2330-530 are 7p/kwh (9c). If the car needs more charge the off peak rate is extended till the target charge is reached.
$3.4 per 100 miles of motoring calculated at 2.5 miles/kwh(efficiency is poor but its a very nice place to be in) that I'm averaging over 24k miles in the IX
I do 15000 miles a year so cost is $510
For same miles x5 40i cost would be @23mpg $]5473

So over 4 years theoretically if everything remains the same saving of $13732 in fuel $2480 in tax and $3500 in tax rebate assuming I sell it for 50%of purchase price.

Total = $ 19712 in (theoretical savings) over a 4 year period. Insurance is higher but then doesn't need servicing/oil changes.

It is very spacious for my family of 5 and 3 small cavaliers in the boot. It's reasonably quick and smooth and silent in most part.

The bad and the Ugly

Depreciation
In 6 months since purchase it's probably depreciated through the projected savings amount. Its difficult to find how much I will get if I part ex now as no dealer really wants a used ev and so offers are ridiculous.Long journeys are a PITA hence I use my ICE car. Range is 75% of advertised in cold conditions and 70% when fully occupied and since one has to charge with at least 10%left I'd say 60% of advertised range in worst case scenario before needing a charge.

All the EV guys were raving about how great they are and how can you knock it unless you try it and I wanted a piece of that pie and it's a good one in some ways but a humble one in many other ways.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

Confession/explanation time.

Let me make this clear. I am very firmly against EV as the sole transportation method and ice ban etc so why did I buy one.

The good
Bought used 1 yr old bmw IX with 12k miles at 66% of original sticker price in june 23.

Government incentive gives me 9% of purchase price back as a cheque tax credit. = $ 6933. (When I sell I'll have to hand back 50%of amount I sold it for though), also cheque for $ 920 for home charger installation. Plus no road tax so $620 a year saving

In Glasgow (UK) home charging rates between 2330-530 are 7p/kwh (9c). If the car needs more charge the off peak rate is extended till the target charge is reached.
$3.4 per 100 miles of motoring calculated at 2.5 miles/kwh(efficiency is poor but its a very nice place to be in) that I'm averaging over 24k miles in the IX
I do 15000 miles a year so cost is $510
For same miles x5 40i cost would be @23mpg $]5473

So over 4 years theoretically if everything remains the same saving of $13732 in fuel $2480 in tax and $3500 in tax rebate assuming I sell it for 50%of purchase price.

Total = $ 19712 in (theoretical savings) over a 4 year period. Insurance is higher but then doesn't need servicing/oil changes.

It is very spacious for my family of 5 and 3 small cavaliers in the boot. It's reasonably quick and smooth and silent in most part.

The bad and the Ugly

Depreciation
In 6 months since purchase it's probably depreciated through the projected savings amount. Its difficult to find how much I will get if I part ex now as no dealer really wants a used ev and so offers are ridiculous.Long journeys are a PITA hence I use my ICE car. Range is 75% of advertised in cold conditions and 70% when fully occupied and since one has to charge with at least 10%left I'd say 60% of advertised range in worst case scenario before needing a charge.

All the EV guys were raving about how great they are and how can you knock it unless you try it and I wanted a piece of that pie and it's a good one in some ways but a humble one in many other ways.

Let us know how it goes. I hope it turns out to be fun.

[ad111]

Originally Posted by dfox

A little perspective is all. Ya'll are just so far gone.

What % of the EVs catching fire are less than 2 years old?

What % of the ice vehicles catching fire are less than 2 years old?

What % of the ice vehicles catching fire are more than 10 years old?

[Tejas1836]

Originally Posted by ad111

What % of the EVs catching fire are less than 2 years old?

What % of the ice vehicles catching fire are less than 2 years old?

What % of the ice vehicles catching fire are more than 10 years old?

Add:
What % of any ice vehicle catching fire requires 10,000 gallons of water to extinguish and is at risk for reigniting?

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by baron95

That is true only if you run from 100% to 0%. Who would do that in the real world?

80% to 15% state of charge is the practical usable range of an EV - I.e. one that can be recharged to relatively quickly and is not anxiety inducing.

So knock 1/3 out of that max range.

Fortunately for me I only have to worry about my own use cases. Driving 100 mph in the freezing cold is not on my list of road trips. I just daily my car. I live in warmer climates and would not have issues road tripping 4-6 hours where I live. Everyone has to figure out their own issues.

If I was going to road trip in under 32 degree weather for some uncommon reason I would likely just slow it down a bit to around 70's on the interstate.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Fortunately for me I only have to worry about my own use cases. Driving 100 mph in the freezing cold is not on my list of road trips. I just daily my car. I live in warmer climates and would not have issues road tripping 4-6 hours where I live. Everyone has to figure out their own issues.

If I was going to road trip in under 32 degree weather for some uncommon reason I would likely just slow it down a bit to around 70's on the interstate.

Everyone has to figure out their own issues.

I think this is the very heart of the issue though isn't it. If government is mandating no more ICE vehicles you no longer have a choice about sourcing out what's best for your personal application.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Everyone has to figure out their own issues.

I think this is the very heart of the issue though isn't it. If government is mandating no more ICE vehicles you no longer have a choice about sourcing out what's best for your personal application.

I agree with that.

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by gblansten

If you drive 80 mph at under 32 degrees you still get 200 miles. Maybe don't drive at 100 mph.

We are talking about a car cost over $100,000 CA and there are so many restriction of what it can and what it can't do. Something really wrong with this picture. If it is a car only cost one third of the price. I am happy to except it as nothing is perfect. My 2 cents

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by eugenebmw

We are talking about a car cost over $100,000 CA and there are so many restriction of what it can and what it can't do. Something really wrong with this picture. If it is a car only cost one third of the price. I am happy to except it as nothing is perfect. My 2 cents

Just buy something else that goes longer distances before filling up at 100 mph in sub-freezing temperatures.

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by ad111

What % of the EVs catching fire are less than 2 years old?

What % of the ice vehicles catching fire are less than 2 years old?

What % of the ice vehicles catching fire are more than 10 years old?

What % of gas station will catch fire? May be less than 0.1% But for me, at all cost I will never live 10 feet from a gas station. Not everything has take two.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by eugenebmw

What % of gas station catch fire? May be less than 0.1% But for me, at all cost I will never live 10 feet from a gas station. Not everything has take two.

You have so little time left to live before dying in an EV fire. I would just get your dream car now and live out your last days the best you can. Life is too short.

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by gblansten

You have so little time left to live before dying in an EV fire. I would just get your dream car now and live out your last days the best you can. Life is too short.

Yes, you read my mind. That's why I bought my dream car G82 and I track with my car every 2 weeks. This is my motto: Living a life like no tomorrow.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by eugenebmw

Yes, you read my mind. That why I bought my dream car G82 and I going tracking with my car every 2 weeks. That is my motto: Living a life like no tomorrow.

Excellent. I had four Ms and loved them. It's a shame the world is about to go up in flames as EVs catch everything on fire.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by gblansten

It's a shame the world is about to go up in flames as EVs catch everything on fire.

Feeling a little sarcastic today?

I know you need a pick me up?

Mercedes-Benz EQB EV burns down while charging at dealer
31 December 2023
This afternoon, a Mercedes-Benz EQB350 caught fire in Johor, as shown in several viral videos circulating on social media. What makes this incident particularly noteworthy is that it happened right in front of the dealer, Cycle & Carriage Johor Bahru in Skudai, apparently while charging at a DC fast charger.
According to Buletin TV3, the fire, which was reported at 2:45pm, engulfed 90% of the car and destroyed 20% of the charging station. We have reached out to an MBM spokesperson, who said that the company could not comment on the matter until an investigation has been conducted. This latest incident is the second high-profile EV fire in Malaysia, following on from another one involving a Tesla Model Y in Puchong in October.



Glad it wasn't a ICE vehicle, we might have a hole in the planet.