Better M3 track toy: e36 vs e46

[tjbuggy2b]

So, I'm bouncing around the idea of picking up a track toy, and was really looking for an e36 M3. Then I noticed the prices for e46 M3's are kinda similar, in some cases. Got me wondering, what are the pros and cons between these two for casual track use. Understand that I'm a super noob, having only done 1 HPDE and 1 autocross. I'm not looking to add power to either, and the e46 is more power than I probably will ever need or want. At any rate, what are your opinions on the topic. Here are the things I'm most concerned with, in no particular order.

1. What is considered to be high mileage on them?
2. How much should I expect to pay to have the rod bearings replaced on both, since that seems to be a common issue on both of them?
3. I know the e46 VANOS is fairly DIYable, but what about the e46? Is it even a problem on them?
3. Ongoing cost expectations.
4. Cost of engine work, should I need it, eg, would the S54 be more expensive to have work done than the S52? If so, by a lot?
5. Any oiling issues to be aware on either of them, eg oil starvation or cooling issues?
6. Any likely transmission or differential issues.
7. At what mileage should I expect piston rings to be problematic?
8. How many miles on valve train before needing a valve job?
9. How many miles can the time chain(s) take before they need replaced?
10. How much should I expect to pay to have trailing arm mount reinforcement done?
11. Anything else you can think of.

I'm pretty good with a wrench but might be past the days I care to tackle any of the internals.

TIA

[prostcfc]

I recently asked a similar question on Reddit, though my question was broader to BMW in general. There's some good stuff in there. Don't forget about rear subframe reinforcement and rod bearings on the E46 M3 in addition to VANOS.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CarTrackDay...commendations/

Personally I'm looking to get a E46 330ci/330i for under 10k and have plenty left over to put in Spec E46 suspension components, address maintenance, and plenty of seat time.

[tjbuggy2b]

Interesting. Wasn't aware of the SpecE46 car class. Def something to think about.

[tdott]

Look into Spex E9X, it's a more up and coming class imo.

https://spece9x.com

SpecE30, Spec3, Spec E46 are all on the decline imo. E30 and E36 parts and donor cars are becoming harder and harder to find and prices are creeping up.

E9X chassis and suspension is also superior imo.

[prostcfc]

Originally Posted by tdott

Look into Spex E9X, it's a more up and coming class imo.

https://spece9x.com

SpecE30, Spec3, Spec E46 are all on the decline imo. E30 and E36 parts and donor cars are becoming harder and harder to find and prices are creeping up.

E9X chassis and suspension is also superior imo.

Thanks. Spec E9X looks interesting, but looks like it's just in NASA SE? But if easing into it, by the time you're ready it may be more widespread. Also no issues with the rear subframe or oil pump nut backing off.

[86Zed]

There is a common racing saying, "how fast can you afford to go?" If only targeted for casual track usage, what other duties will this car be seeing? A lot of folks are moving over to the E46 platform due to the sheer age of E36, and certainly both can be very competitive and lot of fun to drive.

Best bang for you buck is to find a car that is already partially built towards HPDE or track usage and diving in there. Alternatively, complete a few more events in your existing car (cheapest!) and get seat time in other vehicles in the paddock to see what you enjoy most.

I have tracked all of my vehicles and partially own a BMW racecar. When I tracked most heavily I built a 1999 Miata (half cage, buckets, harnesses) and had a ton of fun using it, at a cost much lower than my BMWs.

[Alfisti]

The answer is a Miata.

[RalliartRsX]

The E46 is newer, stiffer and overall, can stuff more tire without massive flares or massaging

The S54 can be detuned or uncorked @ 320WHP/255 w ft lbs and run laps after laps after laps.

I regret selling my E46 M3 and not just caging it and going W2W

I like my E92 M3, but the weight and S54 torque with just a few more HP is.....yeah. It does make all the right noises however

If it were me, and the E46 already had the RACP reinforced, then it's a no brainer. RB are service items, and I did mine in my garage 2nd day of ownership (and at that point, was armed with youtube, torque wrench, toolbox, and the BMW FSB. So it can be done by anyone with patience)

Apart from weight, the E36 is......old. Can't stuff enough tire unless flared and overall, the S52 is out gunned.

[RalliartRsX]

1. What is considered to be high mileage on them?
- I tracked my S54 with 175k miles and kicking. 2 years, oil changes and tracked in as high as 99-100 degree ambient in NJMP last summer and it never skipped a beat. Stock oil cooler, Koyo rad and made sure ALL ducting was in place. 240/240 max temps all day long. 6- 10 track days (4x20 min sessions a day, 2 days a weekend per trackday)


2. How much should I expect to pay to have the rod bearings replaced on both, since that seems to be a common issue on both of them?
- Anywhere from 1600 - 2500. Who knows. I did mine myself with basic tools and proper calibrated torque wrench

3. I know the e46 VANOS is fairly DIYable, but what about the e46? Is it even a problem on them?
- S54 requires a few extra steps and timing tool. However, S54 is a better engine and much more updated

3. Ongoing cost expectations.
- E46 would be higher, only slighty due to weight. However, E46 M3 brakes and everything else is "larger" and more specced to handle track duty and weight

4. Cost of engine work, should I need it, eg, would the S54 be more expensive to have work done than the S52? If so, by a lot?
- S54 was very affordable. Intake, Tune, exhaust and 320 WHP all day long reliable power.


5. Any oiling issues to be aware on either of them, eg oil starvation or cooling issues?
- S54 has a MUCH and vast superior oil pump (2 pickup system) than the S52 with a much better baffled pan. S54 hands down

6. Any likely transmission or differential issues.
- None

7. At what mileage should I expect piston rings to be problematic?
- Huh?? Never heard of such an issue with either engines

8. How many miles on valve train before needing a valve job?
- Check with BMW. S54 has a closer interval than S52. S52, have no idea. With that said, never did a valve job in my high mileage (175K) S54 and tracked it heavily. And last I checked, the new own has done similar the last year


9. How many miles can the time chain(s) take before they need replaced?
- S54; never replaced.

10. How much should I expect to pay to have trailing arm mount reinforcement done?
- Call around. I never reinforced mine. Not an issue without aero and hoosier grip levels. I reinforced RACP myself with Turner plates

11. Anything else you can think of.
- S54 hands down is a better engine in every aspect than S52. E46 is a stiffer, more up to date chassis with better brakes and ability to stuff larger tires than E36

[tjbuggy2b]

RalliartRsX Thanks for that! 1:1 answers for my questions. The piston rings question is just a general engine question, not specific to M3 or BMWs at all.

[tjbuggy2b]

How much should I expect to pay to have the RACP reinforced, ooc?

[RalliartRsX]

Call around. Varies. But shouldn't be terribly expensive.....and really isn't a problem for most if not all track day guys. I would not waste my money on it IMHO

If you do not have the ability to do the work, just spend a little extra and buy one with proven work and receipts (that address the big 3) and just spend the rest on seat time and updates.

Time spent wrenching is time not spent making $$$, spending time with fam and less seat time.

Just my .02c.

GL!